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[Music]

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foreign

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[Laughter]

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[Music]

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foreign

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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foreign

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yes hello from the Great Northern

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Wilderness I've been you all good

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evening good morning good afternoon

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wherever you may be Across the Nation

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around the world

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my name is Leah Prime and this is the

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invisible night school

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for those of you just joining us the

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invisible night school is a small

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Consortium of lay researchers and

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Scholars pursuing the study and

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exploration of ufology high strangeness

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and the phenomenon

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ins is not a monolith we represent

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varied ideas backgrounds disciplines and

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experiences and seek to engage in good

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faith dialogue with other curious minds

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tonight we'll be joined by Mick West a

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man who needs no introduction for our

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audience Mick is the creator of the

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website's contrail science and MetaBank

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and he investigates into bunks

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pseudoscientific claims and conspiracy

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theories such as Chemtrails and UFOs

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he's a regular on UFO Twitter where he

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shares technical breakdowns in prosaic

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explanations for documents videos and

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pictures that capture what are popularly

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perceived of as UFOs

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so without any further delay I'd like to

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welcome my evening's co-hosts

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Campbell

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Luis

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Nick how are you gentlemen

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doing great well how about you

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I'm just another day in paradise man

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agreed

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Can't Get Enough we've been I I cannot

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get enough

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um we've been looking forward to this

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conversation for a while right we're all

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excited to have my cure this is a very

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exciting one I am so looking forward to

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this and also the comments and questions

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in the live chat will be looking very

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carefully so people think about what you

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want us to talk about and try to get us

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to do it

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yeah I see some of our um friends and

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favorites here uh we have Sparky Sparky

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really good to see you

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the earth oh Fringe French Quest is here

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again delighted Michael to see you again

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um yeah and I I'm like you guys I put

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out a call on Twitter earlier asking for

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questions in my DMs and got a whole slew

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of extremely technical Arcane inquiries

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that I read and was like okay I'm sure

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this will make sense to Mick when I read

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them but I'm reading them and thinking I

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have no idea what's going on here

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nothing seemed overtly offensive at

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least

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um so what do you say you want to bring

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them on

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Mick hi it's great to have you here

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I'm very glad to be here excellent

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do should we start this off by just

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going off a couple of the uh kind of

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current topics right now we just had the

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uip report

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um

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which I mean wasn't much of anything and

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we also have the uh the mozua orb photo

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which is also uh

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but we can we can touch on them a little

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bit before we dive into uh what Mick

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does right

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um now you a couple of you behind us

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[Music]

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let me just uh sorry I've got a switch

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attack end

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all right seamlessly

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okay

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uh somebody say something so I can tell

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we'll be able to hear in one second

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about this technical difficulties

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[Music]

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we're talking about uh the the UAP

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report and the mosul sphere yeah which

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one do you want to go with first let's

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see the report yeah chronologically yeah

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yeah the report well I was I was very

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disappointed by the report I was

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expecting more

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uh partly the reason I was expecting

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more is that before the report came out

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there was this this story in the New

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York Times by uh Julian Barnes and there

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was another story oh I've seen news it's

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not just uh Julian doing this and both

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these stories are thought to a source in

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the Pentagon and the Pentagon Source had

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said that uh amongst other things like

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the the gimbal video

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uh showed essentially a rotating camera

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artifact and that the gocast showed

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something that wasn't going very fast it

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was going like I think there's 30 knots

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or something and both those were things

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that you know I'd kind of come up with

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you know me and the guys on MetaBank

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have come up with over the years with

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our analogies of these videos so I was

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kind of excited to see the report and I

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was hoping that they would include some

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stuff like that in it but as it turns

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out you know there was there was nothing

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specific

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in the UAP report about any any

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particular case at all there was even

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less than in the first report so we're

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disappointed by that

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hey Nick sorry to interrupts but can you

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yell into your mic we're getting some

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reports that your audio is a little bit

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low yeah I'll boost the game

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yeah there you go that's or boost again

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that's fine how are you doing how does

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that sound is that better yeah

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yeah I always have to stream yard for

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some reason no but yeah it's louder at

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least let me uh I'll try using the game

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shouting

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this is part of the fun of the live

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shows yeah stream yard is always a bit

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iffy for me but I'll uh I'll do my best

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to uh to speak clearly and uh see what

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happens all right okay so yeah uh so

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that was my take for UAP report and the

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UAV report was oh I'm sorry

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no is it go ahead uh it was interesting

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to me because while it wasn't very

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specific it did give some rough numbers

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of things and I think um I can't recall

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them off the top of my head but I think

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there's a large uh majority of them that

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were classified as like balloon-like

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entities or essentially air whatever and

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while that's not exciting and you hear a

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lot of people on Twitter saying oh we

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don't care about the solve stuff I think

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that that kind of in indirectly speaks

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to the idea that there isn't something

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as uh like an expert witness or an

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expert Observer even since a lot of

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these reports were coming in through the

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military they were still seeing these

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things thinking they were anomalous yet

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they turned out to be you know balloons

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or birds or Airborne clutter yeah I

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think with uh those

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um balloons they actually really

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identified any of them I I think what

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they're doing is they're essentially

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characterizing the thoughts based on the

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information available it's not like it's

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a balloon it's not like they can send a

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plane out there and then see and find

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the balloon because obviously it would

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have blown away or whatever by then

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right it's just a random encounter so

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what they're doing I think is just

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simply analyzing the data that they get

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uh from uh on the pilots and maybe from

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the rail and they'll see that uh it's

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consistent being a balloon uh that they

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can actually tell that it's a balloon

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because of you know whatever data that

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they have uh you know I I think saying

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that they investigated them and sold

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them as balloons might perhaps even be

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overselling it a little bit it's just

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where they had enough information to

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tell that it looked like balloon which I

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think is why they said balloon locked it

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is you're there I don't think this would

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be separate categories is it the same

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thing balloons or balloon-like actors is

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this what they characterized as so they

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see something that's you know moving at

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30 knots and has a small radar signature

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that's a balloon balloon like energy

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uh and probably most of them of course

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actually are balloons but yeah maybe

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there are small alien spaceships it's

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very hard to tell for sure of course

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well

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interesting language around how like

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some of them may appear to demonstrate

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exceptional features or whatever and

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they're obviously uh conditional

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language and in this report it seemed to

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me that they pulled back from that

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further uh in line with sort of what you

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were uh saying Mick about how they they

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seem to not put as much data in there as

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they could have and uh I'm wondering if

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you have any thoughts about like why

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wouldn't they have uh included more

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information and tried to sort of like

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lay out how they're solving these things

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and encouraging people to sort of adopt

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that perspective of like oh there are

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like sufficient prosaic explanations for

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a lot if if not all of these

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observations

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well I think something that's very

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unclear uh with reporters what's the

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actual motivation behind the people who

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are writing it

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and and I think for like from what we

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see in the report it's it's also as if

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their only motivation is to kind of

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fulfill the letter of law like the

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actual requirements uh of uh of you know

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the Mandate that they had uh that the

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requirement that they had to to do this

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report

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I don't think I think they would just

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they wish you would just say as little

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as possible because their default

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position has always been that they're

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not going to release the results of any

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any of their investigations that might

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compromise National Security which is

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pretty much everything by default

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because all of these things

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um if it's something that's

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uh happened in the last few years which

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is the majority of these reports if not

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you know most of uh the the ones that

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the new one the 366 new ones

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uh they're going to involve technology

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which is classified you know the radar

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systems in the planes and the

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operational procedures of of Pilots that

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are current will be clocked by things

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and they don't want to reveal that and

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so the default position is simply to say

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as little as possible which I think is

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why we didn't get any information about

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even like the Gimbal and the go fast

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videos because those are relatively

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recent

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um so yeah I think the reason there is

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simply is is just that they are not

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motivated to do it they don't really

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care about Euro Twitter they don't

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really care that much about the

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mainstream media either they know

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there's going to be you know stories in

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the the mail uh about UFOs when the

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report comes out and the the new I think

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that if they put more detail in it they

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will be more Sensational stories like if

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they gave a little bit of detail about

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about something yeah would it would just

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be more fuel for the the story writers

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and even if they put in a little bit

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detailed things that they've solved they

280
00:12:05,750 --> 00:12:04,740
that would be you know just more stuff

281
00:12:07,449 --> 00:12:05,760
to write about

282
00:12:10,850 --> 00:12:07,459
so it's almost like they're trying to

283
00:12:14,329 --> 00:12:10,860
kind of pour water on the Fire

284
00:12:17,930 --> 00:12:14,339
and they're not really trying to solve

285
00:12:19,250 --> 00:12:17,940
your AP issue for the public you know in

286
00:12:21,290 --> 00:12:19,260
private I'm sure you know they're trying

287
00:12:23,329 --> 00:12:21,300
to figure out what these things are but

288
00:12:25,490 --> 00:12:23,339
their concern really isn't with telling

289
00:12:28,670 --> 00:12:25,500
the public what things are

290
00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:28,680
do you think um that in terms of the

291
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:30,720
classified Tech what's the most

292
00:12:34,730 --> 00:12:32,399
important sort of category of that

293
00:12:35,690 --> 00:12:34,740
technology that it that they might be

294
00:12:37,610 --> 00:12:35,700
trying to

295
00:12:39,410 --> 00:12:37,620
keep close to that chest like would it

296
00:12:42,050 --> 00:12:39,420
be propulsion systems or electronic

297
00:12:44,150 --> 00:12:42,060
warfare or what do you think I think uh

298
00:12:46,490 --> 00:12:44,160
to probably two things uh one would be

299
00:12:48,889 --> 00:12:46,500
kind of the uh kind of the airline type

300
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:48,899
stuff the electronics intelligence uh

301
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:50,880
sensor systems that can detect like

302
00:12:56,090 --> 00:12:53,279
electronic signatures from uh foreign

303
00:12:59,150 --> 00:12:56,100
craft or other craft and characterize

304
00:13:01,790 --> 00:12:59,160
them uh radar systems they can do more

305
00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:01,800
sophisticated this than simply you know

306
00:13:05,150 --> 00:13:03,720
tell that you know here's something with

307
00:13:08,769 --> 00:13:05,160
those things that can actually determine

308
00:13:11,449 --> 00:13:08,779
the shape of things and uh things like

309
00:13:14,030 --> 00:13:11,459
uh characterizing a Crowd by the radar

310
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:14,040
return from the uh that the the

311
00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:16,560
compressor blade back of the of the jet

312
00:13:20,090 --> 00:13:18,720
things like that complicate technical

313
00:13:22,370 --> 00:13:20,100
things that you don't want people to

314
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:22,380
have the exact parameters off and then

315
00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:24,720
the other thing is that uh they don't

316
00:13:29,690 --> 00:13:28,079
want any adversary to know what we know

317
00:13:33,050 --> 00:13:29,700
about them

318
00:13:35,030 --> 00:13:33,060
so if there is uh some kind of more

319
00:13:37,250 --> 00:13:35,040
advanced Chinese sponge drone that's

320
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:37,260
being launched from uh container ships

321
00:13:43,129 --> 00:13:39,839
like off Long Beach or wherever

322
00:13:46,610 --> 00:13:43,139
um so it's spying upon uh maneuvers

323
00:13:48,290 --> 00:13:46,620
and we know about that we don't want to

324
00:13:50,449 --> 00:13:48,300
tell the Chinese that we know about it

325
00:13:52,129 --> 00:13:50,459
unless there's some diplomatic any

326
00:13:55,190 --> 00:13:52,139
reason for doing that so you know we

327
00:13:58,129 --> 00:13:55,200
don't want them to know what are Awards

328
00:13:59,750 --> 00:13:58,139
of their technological advancement is uh

329
00:14:01,550 --> 00:13:59,760
so I think you know we want to keep our

330
00:14:03,769 --> 00:14:01,560
technology secret we want to keep our

331
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:03,779
knowledge of the enemies uh technology

332
00:14:06,829 --> 00:14:05,040
Secret

333
00:14:08,690 --> 00:14:06,839
mm-hmm

334
00:14:11,870 --> 00:14:08,700
especially in the context of the current

335
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:11,880
Ukraine war I guess

336
00:14:16,730 --> 00:14:14,639
yeah I'm not sure like how the Ukraine

337
00:14:17,690 --> 00:14:16,740
war specifically plays into it but you

338
00:14:19,850 --> 00:14:17,700
know if there's going to be any

339
00:14:21,769 --> 00:14:19,860
escalation in that you know you wouldn't

340
00:14:24,769 --> 00:14:21,779
want the Russians knowing exactly what

341
00:14:26,509 --> 00:14:24,779
type of things we can do uh and we we

342
00:14:29,030 --> 00:14:26,519
wouldn't we you know if there are things

343
00:14:30,050 --> 00:14:29,040
that we know about Russian technology we

344
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:30,060
wouldn't want them know that they're

345
00:14:33,410 --> 00:14:31,680
doing that like if Russia has a sneaky

346
00:14:37,250 --> 00:14:33,420
drone or something that they they might

347
00:14:38,750 --> 00:14:37,260
be using in in the Ukraine uh we

348
00:14:41,569 --> 00:14:38,760
wouldn't want them to know that we know

349
00:14:43,550 --> 00:14:41,579
that so the secrecy is in the best

350
00:14:45,170 --> 00:14:43,560
interest of the military you know maybe

351
00:14:48,350 --> 00:14:45,180
not his it's maybe in the best interest

352
00:14:49,610 --> 00:14:48,360
of the UFO Community but you know you if

353
00:14:52,670 --> 00:14:49,620
you want to maintain your operational

354
00:14:55,550 --> 00:14:52,680
Advantage you don't tell everybody

355
00:14:58,189 --> 00:14:55,560
everything that you know and it's list

356
00:14:59,810 --> 00:14:58,199
just to not tell people anything just so

357
00:15:01,370 --> 00:14:59,820
by default you just don't don't tell

358
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:01,380
them things you know you see things come

359
00:15:05,689 --> 00:15:03,600
out sometimes uh they will write a video

360
00:15:07,310 --> 00:15:05,699
out of something that's being shot down

361
00:15:09,230 --> 00:15:07,320
or something but you know they they have

362
00:15:11,870 --> 00:15:09,240
to weigh the pro and cons

363
00:15:14,449 --> 00:15:11,880
uh of of that but if there isn't a

364
00:15:16,490 --> 00:15:14,459
compelling reason they release videos

365
00:15:17,870 --> 00:15:16,500
for propaganda purposes essentially like

366
00:15:19,490 --> 00:15:17,880
saying you know this was a close

367
00:15:21,470 --> 00:15:19,500
encounter with a Chinese jet or

368
00:15:23,689 --> 00:15:21,480
something like that as a problem here's

369
00:15:26,329 --> 00:15:23,699
video of it they'll show you that but

370
00:15:28,189 --> 00:15:26,339
that goes through a thus being put but

371
00:15:30,829 --> 00:15:28,199
if there's no compelling room to do that

372
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:30,839
they're not going to bother

373
00:15:34,730 --> 00:15:32,160
yeah

374
00:15:38,090 --> 00:15:34,740
well and uh if I could follow up on that

375
00:15:40,910 --> 00:15:38,100
we know from uh Declassified briefings

376
00:15:44,090 --> 00:15:40,920
in the intelligence community that the

377
00:15:46,910 --> 00:15:44,100
UFO Community is considered a national

378
00:15:49,490 --> 00:15:46,920
security threat along the Y the lines of

379
00:15:51,710 --> 00:15:49,500
white nationalists and other groups like

380
00:15:54,350 --> 00:15:51,720
that um so we know from a national

381
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:54,360
security perspective that the government

382
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:57,360
is seeking to discourage active

383
00:16:02,150 --> 00:16:00,240
consideration of these subjects um you

384
00:16:03,230 --> 00:16:02,160
know for obvious uh social reasons and

385
00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:03,240
things like that

386
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:04,980
this is part of what got me interested

387
00:16:07,790 --> 00:16:06,480
in this originally as sort of like you

388
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:07,800
know a mainstream person with no

389
00:16:14,030 --> 00:16:09,440
interest in the Paranormal or anything

390
00:16:15,470 --> 00:16:14,040
why were government uh people just

391
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:15,480
starting to talk about this more and

392
00:16:20,810 --> 00:16:18,320
more it confused me knowing that the

393
00:16:22,009 --> 00:16:20,820
Declassified stuff was saying that the

394
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:22,019
government should be discouraging this

395
00:16:25,129 --> 00:16:23,519
kind of thing when Obama came out it's

396
00:16:26,689 --> 00:16:25,139
like why would he be encouraging people

397
00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:26,699
to look at that well do you have any

398
00:16:32,030 --> 00:16:28,800
thoughts on that at all

399
00:16:34,910 --> 00:16:32,040
well uh yeah it's they're probably not

400
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:34,920
classifying white nationalists and UFO

401
00:16:39,470 --> 00:16:36,959
um as exactly the same type of threat

402
00:16:41,389 --> 00:16:39,480
yeah white nationalists are our speaker

403
00:16:43,730 --> 00:16:41,399
because they they might be do terrorist

404
00:16:45,290 --> 00:16:43,740
acts and blow things up or you know stir

405
00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:45,300
descent and you know racial racial

406
00:16:50,509 --> 00:16:48,480
hatred and whatnot uh UFO people are a

407
00:16:53,329 --> 00:16:50,519
national security threat because they

408
00:16:55,550 --> 00:16:53,339
study the uh military very closely and

409
00:16:58,970 --> 00:16:55,560
they they do things like send drones up

410
00:17:00,769 --> 00:16:58,980
over here 51 and you know spy on

411
00:17:04,069 --> 00:17:00,779
essentially what's going in Area 51

412
00:17:05,150 --> 00:17:04,079
which is a secure site and they we try

413
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:05,160
to do things

414
00:17:10,850 --> 00:17:07,439
uh stuff I've done with with analyzing

415
00:17:13,309 --> 00:17:10,860
say Gimbal and go Fest might give them

416
00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:13,319
people some concern uh because you could

417
00:17:19,370 --> 00:17:15,120
learn so much about the technical

418
00:17:20,530 --> 00:17:19,380
capabilities of of a system like that

419
00:17:22,189 --> 00:17:20,540
um but yeah

420
00:17:24,169 --> 00:17:22,199
they probably

421
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:24,179
um dissuade that type of thing from

422
00:17:29,390 --> 00:17:26,959
happening where so but you know

423
00:17:31,250 --> 00:17:29,400
from the you know their own type thing

424
00:17:33,890 --> 00:17:31,260
they'll try and stop people fly drones

425
00:17:35,330 --> 00:17:33,900
over they'll perhaps you know somebody's

426
00:17:37,610 --> 00:17:35,340
house under stem if he does something

427
00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:37,620
that goes or steps over the line like a

428
00:17:41,090 --> 00:17:39,840
guy in I believe in Las Vegas or

429
00:17:44,510 --> 00:17:41,100
wherever it wasn't so we're near area

430
00:17:46,010 --> 00:17:44,520
51. uh for uh from my point of view

431
00:17:47,570 --> 00:17:46,020
they're just not releasing videos

432
00:17:49,730 --> 00:17:47,580
because you know why would they release

433
00:17:53,930 --> 00:17:49,740
a video if if I might be able to glean

434
00:17:55,850 --> 00:17:53,940
some technical uh secret from it but I

435
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:55,860
think you know on a broader uh Point

436
00:17:59,150 --> 00:17:57,120
like

437
00:18:00,770 --> 00:17:59,160
the the original kind of you know

438
00:18:03,409 --> 00:18:00,780
Project Blue Book or anything like that

439
00:18:04,430 --> 00:18:03,419
was kind of said it was a debunking uh

440
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:04,440
effort

441
00:18:10,190 --> 00:18:06,480
but the reason they give they gave her

442
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:10,200
that was was really just that they

443
00:18:15,409 --> 00:18:11,760
they thought there was too much public

444
00:18:17,870 --> 00:18:15,419
interest in UFOs and they said that that

445
00:18:20,090 --> 00:18:17,880
they were kind of overwhelming Channels

446
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:20,100
with all these uh reports it created

447
00:18:25,130 --> 00:18:22,080
essentially these public panics

448
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:25,140
uh UFO flaps where people started

449
00:18:27,890 --> 00:18:26,640
thinking there's loads of UFOs and so

450
00:18:29,090 --> 00:18:27,900
they started looking up in the sky all

451
00:18:31,250 --> 00:18:29,100
the time and they started reporting

452
00:18:34,370 --> 00:18:31,260
things and you know the the uh the

453
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:34,380
airports and the police and uh the the

454
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:36,720
um the air traffic controllers were

455
00:18:40,430 --> 00:18:38,880
being swapped with these reports and so

456
00:18:42,890 --> 00:18:40,440
they thought it would be a good idea to

457
00:18:44,210 --> 00:18:42,900
Tamp it down I don't know if that's how

458
00:18:47,090 --> 00:18:44,220
true that is or if there was other

459
00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:47,100
motive behind it but I'm not sure if

460
00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:50,400
that's excuses is valid now

461
00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:51,120
um

462
00:18:55,250 --> 00:18:53,039
there's there's probably

463
00:18:57,049 --> 00:18:55,260
better ways of dealing with these

464
00:18:58,669 --> 00:18:57,059
reports like you know because that we

465
00:19:00,950 --> 00:18:58,679
could they could just set up some like a

466
00:19:02,390 --> 00:19:00,960
you know if you see a UFO report it to

467
00:19:04,130 --> 00:19:02,400
this site then it's just kind of a

468
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:04,140
essentially a

469
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:06,240
I system that comes through it for

470
00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:07,919
interesting reports it might actually be

471
00:19:12,590 --> 00:19:09,600
a good thing so I don't think that's

472
00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:12,600
necessarily the same uh rationale that

473
00:19:21,529 --> 00:19:14,880
they have now as they did back in the

474
00:19:26,990 --> 00:19:24,830
well excellent I am I'm happy to jump in

475
00:19:30,650 --> 00:19:27,000
with one of the questions I got uh on

476
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:34,310
um so this is from Merrick VR

477
00:19:38,690 --> 00:19:36,240
um who opens the letter very politely

478
00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:38,700
saying thank you in all sincerity for

479
00:19:42,409 --> 00:19:40,080
the hard work you put into your 3D

480
00:19:44,029 --> 00:19:42,419
simulations they're an invaluable tool

481
00:19:46,850 --> 00:19:44,039
for researchers

482
00:19:49,130 --> 00:19:46,860
regarding the go fast videos your own 3D

483
00:19:52,190 --> 00:19:49,140
simulation confirmed by independent

484
00:19:54,110 --> 00:19:52,200
calculations shows the UAP has intrinsic

485
00:19:56,690 --> 00:19:54,120
speed that it's moving about 100 knots

486
00:19:59,270 --> 00:19:56,700
much much faster than the wind how could

487
00:20:01,730 --> 00:19:59,280
it be a balloon and at 13 000 foot feet

488
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:01,740
of altitude hundreds of miles off the

489
00:20:05,690 --> 00:20:03,840
coast of Florida in mid-January how

490
00:20:07,850 --> 00:20:05,700
could it be a bird

491
00:20:09,049 --> 00:20:07,860
yeah I don't think that's entirely

492
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:09,059
accurate

493
00:20:12,890 --> 00:20:10,320
um you know I wrote this installation

494
00:20:15,770 --> 00:20:12,900
called sit back situation Recreation

495
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:15,780
which uh lets you would you write it

496
00:20:20,029 --> 00:20:17,760
down just out of curiosity uh it's in

497
00:20:22,190 --> 00:20:20,039
JavaScript oh right on cool yeah which

498
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:22,200
uh isn't the best language and I used to

499
00:20:26,930 --> 00:20:24,720
write everything in C plus plus uh but

500
00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:26,940
it's it's easy to get I wanted to uh

501
00:20:30,830 --> 00:20:29,039
some anyone could use

502
00:20:33,529 --> 00:20:30,840
and the best way of doing that is to

503
00:20:36,350 --> 00:20:33,539
make a a web application so I wrote it

504
00:20:38,630 --> 00:20:36,360
all in in JavaScript so as you can you

505
00:20:41,450 --> 00:20:38,640
can see it on the bunk is debunk.org sit

506
00:20:45,230 --> 00:20:41,460
rack and there's all different situation

507
00:20:48,289 --> 00:20:45,240
including Gimbal and go fast so ghost

508
00:20:51,529 --> 00:20:48,299
uh until fairly recently I didn't have

509
00:20:52,850 --> 00:20:51,539
wind as a parameter in in the simulation

510
00:20:54,529 --> 00:20:52,860
I mean probably because we didn't know

511
00:20:56,330 --> 00:20:54,539
what the wind was

512
00:20:58,370 --> 00:20:56,340
uh but

513
00:21:00,830 --> 00:20:58,380
I recently had wind and I could have

514
00:21:05,029 --> 00:21:00,840
added it to be like the same as the wind

515
00:21:07,490 --> 00:21:05,039
from the gimbal situation which was you

516
00:21:10,669 --> 00:21:07,500
know we remembered the gimbal audio they

517
00:21:14,750 --> 00:21:10,679
say the wind is 129 out of the West uh

518
00:21:16,130 --> 00:21:14,760
which which is historic in data so we

519
00:21:17,870 --> 00:21:16,140
kind of have a fairly good idea of what

520
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:17,880
the wind was in Gimbal and we think that

521
00:21:21,710 --> 00:21:19,679
go fast was probably at about the same

522
00:21:23,630 --> 00:21:21,720
time of the same the same Mission it's

523
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:23,640
probably the same plane so you can

524
00:21:26,330 --> 00:21:25,200
assume that's about the same thing so I

525
00:21:30,289 --> 00:21:26,340
added that

526
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:30,299
uh and it became

527
00:21:41,090 --> 00:21:39,409
what the actual uh uh

528
00:21:44,090 --> 00:21:41,100
parameters were that you should actually

529
00:21:46,370 --> 00:21:44,100
use and the problem with I kind of

530
00:21:48,890 --> 00:21:46,380
stopped working on it rack and there's

531
00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:48,900
something I'm gonna revisit

532
00:21:54,830 --> 00:21:52,559
I don't think that's uh sure results we

533
00:21:56,750 --> 00:21:54,840
had on the uh for the wind simulation

534
00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:56,760
are actually entirely accurate because

535
00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:00,240
we only did it for like a few days I

536
00:22:04,970 --> 00:22:02,880
didn't really delve into it greatly and

537
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:04,980
so it's something to look into in the

538
00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:06,720
future because I I don't recently

539
00:22:09,950 --> 00:22:08,460
accurate I think there's a wide range of

540
00:22:14,210 --> 00:22:09,960
possibilities

541
00:22:16,909 --> 00:22:14,220
I have big disclaimer on my onset rack

542
00:22:19,490 --> 00:22:16,919
that says uh working progress

543
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:19,500
uh and it's

544
00:22:24,409 --> 00:22:22,080
I've never made videos kind of

545
00:22:25,850 --> 00:22:24,419
explaining any of the videos with sit

546
00:22:27,289 --> 00:22:25,860
right because it's always been to work

547
00:22:29,510 --> 00:22:27,299
in progress It's something that I've

548
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:29,520
validated all of the math and all of

549
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:32,159
behind it so I never made any claims

550
00:22:38,270 --> 00:22:36,000
myself uh about what something must be

551
00:22:40,010 --> 00:22:38,280
you know sit wreck those various

552
00:22:43,370 --> 00:22:40,020
different paths as these various

553
00:22:45,409 --> 00:22:43,380
different possibilities I I haven't done

554
00:22:47,810 --> 00:22:45,419
like a fire video or anything like that

555
00:22:49,850 --> 00:22:47,820
about uh about Gimbal and its possible

556
00:22:53,330 --> 00:22:49,860
trajectories simply because everybody

557
00:22:56,210 --> 00:22:53,340
considerable to be finished and so for

558
00:22:57,770 --> 00:22:56,220
someone else like Marek uh to say that

559
00:22:59,930 --> 00:22:57,780
you know tool is finished and it shows

560
00:23:02,149 --> 00:22:59,940
this and so it's possible I don't think

561
00:23:05,810 --> 00:23:02,159
he's accurate I think more there needs

562
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:05,820
to be there and if if it does turn out

563
00:23:10,730 --> 00:23:08,400
that it's moving faster than the wind

564
00:23:12,830 --> 00:23:10,740
then that would be very interesting it's

565
00:23:14,510 --> 00:23:12,840
not moving particularly fast

566
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:14,520
they're still only moving like I believe

567
00:23:18,890 --> 00:23:17,280
like lots of the most but there's a wide

568
00:23:21,529 --> 00:23:18,900
range of possibilities and we don't know

569
00:23:25,130 --> 00:23:21,539
which one is the actual

570
00:23:29,810 --> 00:23:27,770
great thank you

571
00:23:32,510 --> 00:23:29,820
if we don't have another question lined

572
00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:32,520
up I have one and um it's kind of a

573
00:23:37,610 --> 00:23:34,260
theme that we we touched on with a lot

574
00:23:38,990 --> 00:23:37,620
of guests and um kind of affect

575
00:23:41,090 --> 00:23:39,000
maintaining effective communication

576
00:23:42,289 --> 00:23:41,100
something that you talk about a lot when

577
00:23:44,029 --> 00:23:42,299
dealing with

578
00:23:46,370 --> 00:23:44,039
um people who believe in conspiracy

579
00:23:49,310 --> 00:23:46,380
theories and I was wondering if you

580
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:49,320
thought that um

581
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:51,120
platform like online platforms like

582
00:23:55,909 --> 00:23:53,520
Twitter and stuff are capable of

583
00:23:57,289 --> 00:23:55,919
accommodating uh doing something like

584
00:23:59,570 --> 00:23:57,299
maintaining effective communication

585
00:24:01,370 --> 00:23:59,580
especially given that um

586
00:24:03,070 --> 00:24:01,380
Twitter kind of favors the short form

587
00:24:06,770 --> 00:24:03,080
and there's kind of a control

588
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:06,780
adversarial culture on there

589
00:24:09,890 --> 00:24:08,640
and a follow-up question to that is do

590
00:24:13,250 --> 00:24:09,900
you have any

591
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:13,260
advice for Skeptics who are trying to

592
00:24:15,770 --> 00:24:14,880
not just preach to the choir but

593
00:24:17,390 --> 00:24:15,780
actually

594
00:24:20,270 --> 00:24:17,400
um my connections and communicate

595
00:24:21,950 --> 00:24:20,280
effectively across the Divide as someone

596
00:24:25,310 --> 00:24:21,960
would like to call it

597
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:25,320
well I think Twitter is uh is

598
00:24:31,789 --> 00:24:28,320
um is a useful communication medium but

599
00:24:33,529 --> 00:24:31,799
it obviously has very big limitations

600
00:24:35,390 --> 00:24:33,539
if you're having a conversation with

601
00:24:37,490 --> 00:24:35,400
someone in Mortar like we're talking

602
00:24:40,370 --> 00:24:37,500
like now we can very quickly go back and

603
00:24:42,350 --> 00:24:40,380
forth uh on on the topic and we can

604
00:24:43,850 --> 00:24:42,360
resolve things very quickly because we

605
00:24:45,470 --> 00:24:43,860
can we can talk about it you know

606
00:24:48,350 --> 00:24:45,480
sometimes we're having an argument with

607
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:48,360
someone on Twitter I I try to take it

608
00:24:52,490 --> 00:24:50,640
offline you have to talk to them face to

609
00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:52,500
face earlier when I call with them just

610
00:24:56,690 --> 00:24:55,260
because it's so much simpler uh Twitter

611
00:24:58,310 --> 00:24:56,700
also

612
00:25:00,770 --> 00:24:58,320
you know essentially sending text

613
00:25:03,529 --> 00:25:00,780
messages and

614
00:25:06,289 --> 00:25:03,539
you you try to squeeze things into this

615
00:25:08,930 --> 00:25:06,299
shorter format and you often

616
00:25:10,130 --> 00:25:08,940
you don't get the nuances of what you're

617
00:25:13,010 --> 00:25:10,140
trying to say

618
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:13,020
and so I will very very frequently say

619
00:25:17,450 --> 00:25:16,080
things on Twitter and then somebody take

620
00:25:20,029 --> 00:25:17,460
it the wrong way

621
00:25:22,490 --> 00:25:20,039
and they'll if I say you know I think

622
00:25:23,930 --> 00:25:22,500
yeah this particular UFO is a bird or

623
00:25:26,330 --> 00:25:23,940
something like that and they say oh well

624
00:25:29,390 --> 00:25:26,340
you the like birds can get from like a

625
00:25:31,450 --> 00:25:29,400
thousand feet to 50 feet and 0.78

626
00:25:34,850 --> 00:25:31,460
seconds yeah and

627
00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:34,860
I'm saying that all you have subverts or

628
00:25:41,390 --> 00:25:36,480
you know the

629
00:25:43,970 --> 00:25:41,400
it's it's it's very easy to um kind of

630
00:25:46,669 --> 00:25:43,980
say the wrong thing I guess and so I've

631
00:25:48,110 --> 00:25:46,679
kind of started to try to say the right

632
00:25:50,029 --> 00:25:48,120
thing a little more and I've kind of I

633
00:25:51,169 --> 00:25:50,039
guess evolved a bit you know when you're

634
00:25:53,570 --> 00:25:51,179
just chatting

635
00:25:56,810 --> 00:25:53,580
it's not like your default position is

636
00:25:58,909 --> 00:25:56,820
is that you're chatting to a friend now

637
00:26:02,450 --> 00:25:58,919
and when you're chatting to a friend or

638
00:26:03,250 --> 00:26:02,460
you know people who are have can share

639
00:26:07,070 --> 00:26:03,260
um

640
00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:07,080
uh beliefs and experiences you know you

641
00:26:12,049 --> 00:26:09,840
assume that what you say will be

642
00:26:13,730 --> 00:26:12,059
understood you have this kind of mental

643
00:26:15,230 --> 00:26:13,740
model of everything and you're referring

644
00:26:17,390 --> 00:26:15,240
to that and you assume that they have a

645
00:26:19,850 --> 00:26:17,400
mental model kind of matches that yeah

646
00:26:22,789 --> 00:26:19,860
but on Twitter their mental models can

647
00:26:25,130 --> 00:26:22,799
be vastly vastly different to yours it's

648
00:26:27,289 --> 00:26:25,140
so different you know I say things on

649
00:26:29,450 --> 00:26:27,299
Twitter and people take it to be like

650
00:26:33,169 --> 00:26:29,460
always like whoa completely different

651
00:26:34,850 --> 00:26:33,179
what I actually meant uh and it's it's

652
00:26:38,450 --> 00:26:34,860
something that I've learned over time

653
00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:38,460
you have to be very cautious about the

654
00:26:44,090 --> 00:26:40,799
way your phrase especially if it's a

655
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:44,100
contentious and emotional subject like

656
00:26:50,090 --> 00:26:47,520
UFOs uh so I've I started adding

657
00:26:51,769 --> 00:26:50,100
disclaimers all the time you know adding

658
00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:51,779
setting things like yeah it doesn't

659
00:26:57,110 --> 00:26:54,480
apply to everything or then I add like

660
00:26:58,730 --> 00:26:57,120
oh but also might be aliens and then I

661
00:27:00,169 --> 00:26:58,740
thought well maybe I shouldn't say that

662
00:27:01,730 --> 00:27:00,179
because now they're going to think I'm

663
00:27:02,990 --> 00:27:01,740
joking because I'm saying might be

664
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:03,000
aliens

665
00:27:07,850 --> 00:27:06,000
and then you use what should I put human

666
00:27:09,470 --> 00:27:07,860
intelligence and say why are you just

667
00:27:12,110 --> 00:27:09,480
get to that one thing when it could be

668
00:27:13,490 --> 00:27:12,120
the five other things as well

669
00:27:16,430 --> 00:27:13,500
um you know at some point you're trying

670
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:16,440
to strike a balance between

671
00:27:20,330 --> 00:27:18,480
um efficiency of communication and

672
00:27:24,529 --> 00:27:20,340
effectiveness of communication

673
00:27:27,049 --> 00:27:24,539
and I think uh yeah I I haven't done

674
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:27,059
that yet I still I still mess up all the

675
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:28,320
time I've still said things on Twitter

676
00:27:33,169 --> 00:27:30,720
and I will like you know get angry at me

677
00:27:35,690 --> 00:27:33,179
and I say things on TV I was just TV the

678
00:27:38,029 --> 00:27:35,700
other day and I I uh after the report

679
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:38,039
came out I was like local Chicago TV

680
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:41,760
station and I said something like

681
00:27:48,890 --> 00:27:46,640
um if if a pilot sees a a rain barrel

682
00:27:50,510 --> 00:27:48,900
messing up their training range then

683
00:27:51,850 --> 00:27:50,520
basically have to return to base and

684
00:27:54,529 --> 00:27:51,860
file a report

685
00:27:56,870 --> 00:27:54,539
and yeah that because I kind of

686
00:27:58,250 --> 00:27:56,880
remembered hearing that somewhere but it

687
00:27:59,690 --> 00:27:58,260
turned out like you know they don't

688
00:28:01,669 --> 00:27:59,700
always have to return to base it's just

689
00:28:03,710 --> 00:28:01,679
that they may have to replace

690
00:28:05,870 --> 00:28:03,720
but people are like oh Mick West how

691
00:28:08,149 --> 00:28:05,880
dare you like talk a Navy procedure as

692
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:08,159
if you know you're talking about when I

693
00:28:10,669 --> 00:28:09,120
was just talking about anything I

694
00:28:12,710 --> 00:28:10,679
remembered but

695
00:28:16,370 --> 00:28:12,720
it's like you get one little slip up on

696
00:28:18,529 --> 00:28:16,380
people pounce on you it's it's uh you

697
00:28:20,450 --> 00:28:18,539
seem to be produced a bit more than uh

698
00:28:22,730 --> 00:28:20,460
your average UFO Twitter user though to

699
00:28:27,769 --> 00:28:22,740
be fair but yeah you're right

700
00:28:29,690 --> 00:28:27,779
yeah it's uh it I tweet a lot so I guess

701
00:28:31,610 --> 00:28:29,700
like I'm going to make a lot more

702
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:31,620
mistakes in most people on Twitter don't

703
00:28:34,730 --> 00:28:32,640
even tweet

704
00:28:36,409 --> 00:28:34,740
uh but then the question was like you

705
00:28:39,409 --> 00:28:36,419
know what advice do you have for for

706
00:28:41,570 --> 00:28:39,419
specs in terms of like communicating

707
00:28:43,130 --> 00:28:41,580
yeah I wrote a book about

708
00:28:44,690 --> 00:28:43,140
education which I have a copy of so

709
00:28:46,370 --> 00:28:44,700
you're up in the rap battle but that's

710
00:28:49,850 --> 00:28:46,380
about how to speak to conspiracy

711
00:28:52,789 --> 00:28:49,860
theories similar things apply

712
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:52,799
um and the key thing is establishing

713
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:55,200
effective communication

714
00:29:01,730 --> 00:28:58,080
and I think you know too many people who

715
00:29:04,210 --> 00:29:01,740
are skeptic go in with essentially fact

716
00:29:08,810 --> 00:29:04,220
checking philosophy

717
00:29:11,210 --> 00:29:08,820
and a mistake finding philosophy they

718
00:29:13,130 --> 00:29:11,220
want to go in there and they'll stay you

719
00:29:15,169 --> 00:29:13,140
know this person got something wrong I'm

720
00:29:17,149 --> 00:29:15,179
gonna find all the things that they got

721
00:29:19,010 --> 00:29:17,159
I'm gonna Point them all out

722
00:29:21,590 --> 00:29:19,020
or you know that's wrong so I'm just

723
00:29:24,889 --> 00:29:21,600
gonna like list reason why it's wrong

724
00:29:26,990 --> 00:29:24,899
but you know not really super effective

725
00:29:29,690 --> 00:29:27,000
most of the time people who are

726
00:29:31,549 --> 00:29:29,700
believers in one thing or you know a

727
00:29:34,669 --> 00:29:31,559
strong opinion about the way things are

728
00:29:36,169 --> 00:29:34,679
I'm going to be swayed by just with

729
00:29:39,130 --> 00:29:36,179
aggressive fact checking or even just

730
00:29:41,690 --> 00:29:39,140
fairly packing you've got to actually

731
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:41,700
establish communication with them and

732
00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:44,399
understand where they're coming from and

733
00:29:48,529 --> 00:29:45,840
get them to understand where you're

734
00:29:52,610 --> 00:29:48,539
coming from and to be able to actually

735
00:29:54,649 --> 00:29:52,620
have a conversation to which you can uh

736
00:29:57,470 --> 00:29:54,659
these these facts

737
00:30:00,409 --> 00:29:57,480
uh so Twitter isn't always the best way

738
00:30:01,130 --> 00:30:00,419
of doing it but again you can do it on

739
00:30:02,870 --> 00:30:01,140
Twitter

740
00:30:06,110 --> 00:30:02,880
it's better to do it on other platforms

741
00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:06,120
it's really to do it uh somewhere you

742
00:30:11,090 --> 00:30:08,159
can talk long form it's best to actually

743
00:30:12,110 --> 00:30:11,100
real conversations with people

744
00:30:15,470 --> 00:30:12,120
thanks

745
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,110
hopefully our goal

746
00:30:22,669 --> 00:30:20,570
started the real objective was to

747
00:30:25,549 --> 00:30:22,679
through example demonstrate what good

748
00:30:28,850 --> 00:30:25,559
faith conversation looks like in and

749
00:30:30,889 --> 00:30:28,860
around the subject and well I believe

750
00:30:33,409 --> 00:30:30,899
that we are generally kind of maligned

751
00:30:35,450 --> 00:30:33,419
as being super skeptical

752
00:30:37,430 --> 00:30:35,460
um you know I always want to take the

753
00:30:39,470 --> 00:30:37,440
opportunity to reiterate to the audience

754
00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:39,480
and people listening that we're very

755
00:30:44,330 --> 00:30:42,480
open a conversation and and discourse

756
00:30:45,950 --> 00:30:44,340
with virtually anyone in and around this

757
00:30:48,049 --> 00:30:45,960
subject

758
00:30:49,850 --> 00:30:48,059
um so I I've gotten a number of

759
00:30:52,610 --> 00:30:49,860
questions both on back Channel and then

760
00:30:54,409 --> 00:30:52,620
in the chat this evening and I want to

761
00:30:56,690 --> 00:30:54,419
preface what I'm going to ask by also

762
00:30:57,950 --> 00:30:56,700
making a brief editorial comment which

763
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:57,960
is that

764
00:31:02,870 --> 00:31:00,480
um I know buckle up sorry Nick yeah you

765
00:31:06,169 --> 00:31:02,880
can mute me to Nick if you want

766
00:31:08,510 --> 00:31:06,179
um so ufology as a field and as a

767
00:31:11,090 --> 00:31:08,520
community is fundamentally anti or

768
00:31:13,610 --> 00:31:11,100
non-credentialed it has no curriculum it

769
00:31:15,230 --> 00:31:13,620
has no Associated institutions its

770
00:31:18,169 --> 00:31:15,240
contents are highly interdisciplinary

771
00:31:19,250 --> 00:31:18,179
and lay researchers are generally lauded

772
00:31:21,230 --> 00:31:19,260
and celebrated

773
00:31:24,110 --> 00:31:21,240
it's being you know substantial and

774
00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:24,120
important contributors to this subject

775
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:25,679
um and I say that to preface the next

776
00:31:29,810 --> 00:31:27,840
question which is can you give us a

777
00:31:32,149 --> 00:31:29,820
little bit of background on your own

778
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:32,159
education and areas of expertise either

779
00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:35,279
formally or just informally yeah that's

780
00:31:39,470 --> 00:31:38,159
kind of funny uh we're not funny but you

781
00:31:40,970 --> 00:31:39,480
know obviously

782
00:31:44,330 --> 00:31:40,980
one of the reasons I get attacked on

783
00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:44,340
Twitter is that uh you know I'm not a

784
00:31:48,710 --> 00:31:46,799
scientist with phds and things like that

785
00:31:51,350 --> 00:31:48,720
so I criticize someone like Travis

786
00:31:53,389 --> 00:31:51,360
Taylor uh for some you know ridiculous

787
00:31:55,610 --> 00:31:53,399
claim makes on skinwalk

788
00:31:58,250 --> 00:31:55,620
then people will say well Travis Taylor

789
00:32:00,350 --> 00:31:58,260
has two phds and you don't have any

790
00:32:02,330 --> 00:32:00,360
so he'll be right

791
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:02,340
which you know is obviously fallacious

792
00:32:10,970 --> 00:32:06,720
but uh but you know my background is uh

793
00:32:12,529 --> 00:32:10,980
I'm like 55 years old I have a degree in

794
00:32:15,350 --> 00:32:12,539
computer science

795
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:15,360
from the University of Manchester in

796
00:32:19,070 --> 00:32:16,320
England

797
00:32:20,510 --> 00:32:19,080
and that was back when they they didn't

798
00:32:23,930 --> 00:32:20,520
even call it computer science they

799
00:32:25,850 --> 00:32:23,940
called it computation which uh was was

800
00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:25,860
kind of a bit outdated back then were

801
00:32:30,110 --> 00:32:27,840
using like punch cards and writing in

802
00:32:32,810 --> 00:32:30,120
portrait and Cobalt one of the one of

803
00:32:34,490 --> 00:32:32,820
the universities I went to to you try

804
00:32:36,529 --> 00:32:34,500
out the universe is before you go to

805
00:32:38,330 --> 00:32:36,539
them actually did actually still use

806
00:32:39,889 --> 00:32:38,340
Punch Cards in one of their courses I

807
00:32:43,250 --> 00:32:39,899
think they dropped it the next Alberta

808
00:32:45,169 --> 00:32:43,260
it was kind of on the the verge of um in

809
00:32:47,210 --> 00:32:45,179
the modern era of computation that's

810
00:32:49,490 --> 00:32:47,220
cool uh just moving up from these very

811
00:32:52,330 --> 00:32:49,500
very simplistic you know little more

812
00:32:54,950 --> 00:32:52,340
than uh hyper-powered pocket calculator

813
00:32:56,990 --> 00:32:54,960
computers that fill the room into actual

814
00:32:59,330 --> 00:32:57,000
real computers with sophisticated code

815
00:33:01,250 --> 00:32:59,340
but yeah so I went to University I got

816
00:33:04,970 --> 00:33:01,260
degree in computer science and then I

817
00:33:07,250 --> 00:33:04,980
got a job uh programming video games uh

818
00:33:10,370 --> 00:33:07,260
pretty much they are a college and did

819
00:33:14,930 --> 00:33:10,380
that for those in UK and then I I moved

820
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:14,940
to America at California a job over here

821
00:33:19,730 --> 00:33:18,000
uh mostly because they pay more money in

822
00:33:21,049 --> 00:33:19,740
California and also it sounded like a

823
00:33:23,509 --> 00:33:21,059
lot of fun to come over to California

824
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:23,519
from the UK which to weather

825
00:33:27,710 --> 00:33:25,679
uh and I had a good time over in

826
00:33:30,889 --> 00:33:27,720
California I started a company called

827
00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:30,899
soft and we did a video game called Tony

828
00:33:37,330 --> 00:33:33,600
Hawk's Pro Skater oh yeah I think I've

829
00:33:42,070 --> 00:33:37,340
heard of that yeah it was very popular

830
00:33:46,490 --> 00:33:42,080
skateboard over on my my desk on myself

831
00:33:48,529 --> 00:33:46,500
uh and uh kind of like semi-retired

832
00:33:50,090 --> 00:33:48,539
early young and just started doing

833
00:33:51,950 --> 00:33:50,100
basically writing and a bit of

834
00:33:53,630 --> 00:33:51,960
Consulting work for a number of years

835
00:33:56,269 --> 00:33:53,640
and then you kind of transitioned over

836
00:33:57,230 --> 00:33:56,279
to just writing and doing stuff on the

837
00:33:58,909 --> 00:33:57,240
internet

838
00:34:01,549 --> 00:33:58,919
now basically I just wanted to do stuff

839
00:34:03,649 --> 00:34:01,559
that I found personally interesting so

840
00:34:05,630 --> 00:34:03,659
my background in video game kind of

841
00:34:07,610 --> 00:34:05,640
interesting you know it sounds kind of

842
00:34:10,070 --> 00:34:07,620
silly you know you're a video game

843
00:34:11,149 --> 00:34:10,080
program or a video game designer both

844
00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:11,159
things are true

845
00:34:17,329 --> 00:34:14,000
but it gave me a lot of expertise

846
00:34:20,030 --> 00:34:17,339
in uh what's referred to as linear

847
00:34:22,190 --> 00:34:20,040
linear algebra or more simply just

848
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:22,200
three-dimensional coordinate geometry

849
00:34:25,970 --> 00:34:24,240
which is basically the math that's being

850
00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:25,980
used and things move around in

851
00:34:29,930 --> 00:34:27,839
three-dimensional space and that's used

852
00:34:33,349 --> 00:34:29,940
to construct three-dimensional objects

853
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:33,359
Green Space so it's it's a bunch of math

854
00:34:39,889 --> 00:34:37,440
that's very very useful for uh making

855
00:34:42,589 --> 00:34:39,899
simulations but also for analyzing

856
00:34:44,750 --> 00:34:42,599
situations with the phone so if you've

857
00:34:46,369 --> 00:34:44,760
got a like a picture or a video and you

858
00:34:48,409 --> 00:34:46,379
kind of know where the camera is and you

859
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:48,419
know where it's looking and you know how

860
00:34:53,089 --> 00:34:51,119
wide its field of view is uh then you

861
00:34:56,570 --> 00:34:53,099
can do some calculations you know simple

862
00:34:59,930 --> 00:34:56,580
calculations about speed and size and uh

863
00:35:01,250 --> 00:34:59,940
and uh at the trajectory yeah it's like

864
00:35:03,410 --> 00:35:01,260
a physics engine

865
00:35:05,630 --> 00:35:03,420
yeah essentially it's like it's using

866
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:05,640
physics engine kind of in Reverse in a

867
00:35:10,849 --> 00:35:08,160
way a physics engine normally is to

868
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:10,859
produce a result but I'm taking the end

869
00:35:17,210 --> 00:35:13,200
result what you see on green and

870
00:35:19,370 --> 00:35:17,220
figuring out uh what the possible if

871
00:35:21,410 --> 00:35:19,380
possible puts were

872
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:21,420
yeah because you you've only got a

873
00:35:25,010 --> 00:35:22,800
two-dimensional thing when you've got a

874
00:35:27,470 --> 00:35:25,020
picture or a video so you you don't have

875
00:35:30,170 --> 00:35:27,480
all the information so you've got to

876
00:35:32,329 --> 00:35:30,180
construct like if you have a picture of

877
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:32,339
an object like say this Tic Tac here

878
00:35:37,490 --> 00:35:35,760
uh and you know it's if you know how big

879
00:35:39,290 --> 00:35:37,500
it is you don't know how far away it is

880
00:35:41,210 --> 00:35:39,300
when something gets closer to the camera

881
00:35:42,770 --> 00:35:41,220
it gets bigger when it gets further away

882
00:35:45,290 --> 00:35:42,780
it gets smaller and a very simple

883
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:45,300
mathematical relationship it's your

884
00:35:49,310 --> 00:35:47,520
device by the

885
00:35:51,170 --> 00:35:49,320
uh but if you don't know how big it is

886
00:35:53,329 --> 00:35:51,180
you can't calculate how far away it is

887
00:35:55,609 --> 00:35:53,339
but if you know some other things about

888
00:35:57,829 --> 00:35:55,619
it then you might be able to figure it

889
00:36:00,410 --> 00:35:57,839
out uh and so that's the type of thing

890
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:00,420
that they do in my software tools and a

891
00:36:06,290 --> 00:36:03,119
lot of the analysis to do of videos will

892
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:06,300
involve kind of of a trigonometry

893
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:12,170
cool thank you

894
00:36:17,870 --> 00:36:14,880
if I could uh just jump in quickly and

895
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:17,880
ask a follow-up to that uh Mick in terms

896
00:36:24,050 --> 00:36:21,680
of your history I was very interested by

897
00:36:25,730 --> 00:36:24,060
reading or maybe it's on interview with

898
00:36:28,730 --> 00:36:25,740
you where you talked about how you uh

899
00:36:32,329 --> 00:36:28,740
grew up as a Catholic is that correct

900
00:36:34,609 --> 00:36:32,339
yeah yeah I grew up in in Bingley my

901
00:36:38,510 --> 00:36:34,619
mother was a Catholic my father was kind

902
00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:38,520
of agnostic or I guess apathetic about

903
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:41,040
religion my mother's family was Catholic

904
00:36:45,890 --> 00:36:43,440
and he went went to church I went to

905
00:36:48,890 --> 00:36:45,900
confession and you know believed in God

906
00:36:51,609 --> 00:36:48,900
and I believed in the power of prayer uh

907
00:36:53,630 --> 00:36:51,619
and then I guess when I was about like

908
00:36:57,170 --> 00:36:53,640
15-ish I think

909
00:36:59,210 --> 00:36:57,180
I just you know stops bullying uh yeah

910
00:37:01,849 --> 00:36:59,220
it was one of those things is processed

911
00:37:03,290 --> 00:37:01,859
you start to think like well is there

912
00:37:05,690 --> 00:37:03,300
really a garden there what evidence is

913
00:37:07,250 --> 00:37:05,700
there of God and then you know maybe it

914
00:37:09,470 --> 00:37:07,260
doesn't and then I actually went to

915
00:37:11,329 --> 00:37:09,480
confession and I told the the priest

916
00:37:13,970 --> 00:37:11,339
that I was having these these concerns

917
00:37:15,890 --> 00:37:13,980
and he should just look around at The

918
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:15,900
Wonder of God's creation and that should

919
00:37:20,930 --> 00:37:18,240
satisfy me but you know I didn't didn't

920
00:37:23,690 --> 00:37:20,940
seem like enough evidence to me and you

921
00:37:26,089 --> 00:37:23,700
know I stopped and I think you know that

922
00:37:28,970 --> 00:37:26,099
may have had an effect me you know is

923
00:37:31,490 --> 00:37:28,980
that I was told that something was true

924
00:37:35,150 --> 00:37:31,500
and ever believed it

925
00:37:36,770 --> 00:37:35,160
uh people and my motherboard the priests

926
00:37:39,230 --> 00:37:36,780
and the teachers and then lots of my

927
00:37:41,210 --> 00:37:39,240
friends believed it but I stopped

928
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:41,220
believing it because there wasn't good

929
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:44,160
evidence to back it up and and I think

930
00:37:48,650 --> 00:37:46,560
that in a way it kind of perhaps gave me

931
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:48,660
the confidence to challenge other

932
00:37:55,069 --> 00:37:52,560
beliefs later uh and you know Point

933
00:37:56,210 --> 00:37:55,079
things out that other one might Point

934
00:37:59,770 --> 00:37:56,220
things out

935
00:38:06,050 --> 00:37:59,780
but yes born Catholic yes baptized

936
00:38:11,930 --> 00:38:10,250
cool thank you have you ever had

937
00:38:13,970 --> 00:38:11,940
um this is maybe digging a little bit

938
00:38:15,530 --> 00:38:13,980
further into some metaphysics but have

939
00:38:18,349 --> 00:38:15,540
you ever had either deliberately or

940
00:38:20,930 --> 00:38:18,359
spontaneously like any kind of expansive

941
00:38:22,609 --> 00:38:20,940
or Consciousness altering experience and

942
00:38:27,650 --> 00:38:22,619
and I asked this because I'm curious

943
00:38:31,030 --> 00:38:27,660
about how if or did it affect

944
00:38:34,609 --> 00:38:31,040
um you or your world view

945
00:38:37,069 --> 00:38:34,619
not really I mean thinking about this

946
00:38:38,810 --> 00:38:37,079
before I came on the show because I you

947
00:38:40,190 --> 00:38:38,820
know I heard of some I listened to this

948
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:40,200
episode and you talked a little bit

949
00:38:46,630 --> 00:38:42,079
about uh

950
00:38:53,450 --> 00:38:51,890
like mind-altering drugs on THC uh and

951
00:38:58,190 --> 00:38:53,460
alcohol

952
00:39:00,230 --> 00:38:58,200
and uh and so no I would say but you

953
00:39:02,270 --> 00:39:00,240
know I I guess you get familiar with

954
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:02,280
altered mental States because you know

955
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:03,599
there's one altered mental state that

956
00:39:08,089 --> 00:39:06,720
everyone has which is falling asleep and

957
00:39:11,089 --> 00:39:08,099
having dreams

958
00:39:12,890 --> 00:39:11,099
uh and I used to have I guess something

959
00:39:16,730 --> 00:39:12,900
the closest thing I would have if the

960
00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:16,740
the hypnagogic uh hallucinations which

961
00:39:20,930 --> 00:39:18,240
is where you're falling asleep or when

962
00:39:23,150 --> 00:39:20,940
you're waking up to the world for it I

963
00:39:26,210 --> 00:39:23,160
can't remember which one is which uh you

964
00:39:28,310 --> 00:39:26,220
see it's kind of a bit like paralysis

965
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:28,320
but if you're not necessarily paralyzed

966
00:39:32,450 --> 00:39:31,440
so you wake up and you see something or

967
00:39:34,490 --> 00:39:32,460
you're falling you're just dropping off

968
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:34,500
to sleep and all of a sudden you see an

969
00:39:38,089 --> 00:39:36,720
spider descending from the ceiling which

970
00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:38,099
is the most common thing I saw I will

971
00:39:42,290 --> 00:39:39,599
sometimes see monsters and things like

972
00:39:43,970 --> 00:39:42,300
that but mostly with giant spiders and

973
00:39:47,930 --> 00:39:43,980
it's very very real

974
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:47,940
so you know I I I recognize there are

975
00:39:53,150 --> 00:39:50,400
altered men states that are quite

976
00:39:55,609 --> 00:39:53,160
possible for people to have where

977
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:55,619
reality changes your perception of

978
00:39:59,510 --> 00:39:57,359
reality changes and it seems just as

979
00:40:01,609 --> 00:39:59,520
real as

980
00:40:03,770 --> 00:40:01,619
um as actual reality the objective

981
00:40:05,630 --> 00:40:03,780
what's it but you know you you know from

982
00:40:07,069 --> 00:40:05,640
later checking that there isn't actually

983
00:40:09,410 --> 00:40:07,079
any giant spiders in the room so

984
00:40:11,210 --> 00:40:09,420
objectively the nothing was going on

985
00:40:14,089 --> 00:40:11,220
there so I think that's kind of a useful

986
00:40:15,829 --> 00:40:14,099
perspective to to have had experienced

987
00:40:17,630 --> 00:40:15,839
you know some kind of hallucination at

988
00:40:21,230 --> 00:40:17,640
least knowing that you know other people

989
00:40:24,290 --> 00:40:21,240
could also have similar hello streams uh

990
00:40:27,430 --> 00:40:24,300
and again I have to append a disclaimer

991
00:40:29,569 --> 00:40:27,440
to that I'm not doing that all

992
00:40:31,250 --> 00:40:29,579
experiences that everybody's had is the

993
00:40:32,930 --> 00:40:31,260
hallucination it's the type of thing

994
00:40:34,609 --> 00:40:32,940
that gets me into trouble mention

995
00:40:37,609 --> 00:40:34,619
something like like that they say well

996
00:40:40,370 --> 00:40:37,619
you think anything is that no obviously

997
00:40:43,490 --> 00:40:40,380
this happens to some people some people

998
00:40:45,890 --> 00:40:43,500
have had experiences which were

999
00:40:47,210 --> 00:40:45,900
hallucinations I think no one can agree

1000
00:40:48,890 --> 00:40:47,220
that that's no one can disagree with

1001
00:40:51,050 --> 00:40:48,900
that that has actually happened at least

1002
00:40:52,190 --> 00:40:51,060
once or twice yeah amongst all these

1003
00:40:55,550 --> 00:40:52,200
things it doesn't mean they were all

1004
00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:55,560
hallucinations of course but some of

1005
00:40:59,150 --> 00:40:57,119
them definitely were

1006
00:41:01,790 --> 00:40:59,160
yeah there's some there's definitely

1007
00:41:03,829 --> 00:41:01,800
this predilection to

1008
00:41:06,109 --> 00:41:03,839
um split right like people think that

1009
00:41:09,530 --> 00:41:06,119
either everything is totally believable

1010
00:41:14,089 --> 00:41:09,540
or everything is hallucination

1011
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:14,099
um my kind of sidecar question then is

1012
00:41:17,630 --> 00:41:15,599
um just out of curiosity do you

1013
00:41:19,609 --> 00:41:17,640
experience aesthetic chill

1014
00:41:21,950 --> 00:41:19,619
when you listen to music or when you

1015
00:41:23,950 --> 00:41:21,960
look at art or see great natural beauty

1016
00:41:26,270 --> 00:41:23,960
or anything like that

1017
00:41:28,010 --> 00:41:26,280
well you mean like a peak experience

1018
00:41:30,050 --> 00:41:28,020
type thing

1019
00:41:31,130 --> 00:41:30,060
um similar yeah look I like chill it's

1020
00:41:32,690 --> 00:41:31,140
sometimes called like stand Hall

1021
00:41:34,370 --> 00:41:32,700
syndrome it's this feeling of like

1022
00:41:36,170 --> 00:41:34,380
overwhelm

1023
00:41:39,050 --> 00:41:36,180
um and it can feel almost dissociative

1024
00:41:40,730 --> 00:41:39,060
or disembodied I definitely had it like

1025
00:41:42,589 --> 00:41:40,740
Full Tilt when I saw the Grand Canyon

1026
00:41:44,569 --> 00:41:42,599
for the first time some people have it

1027
00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:44,579
when they go to Paris like different

1028
00:41:49,250 --> 00:41:47,280
forms of Art and uh encounters can

1029
00:41:52,250 --> 00:41:49,260
induce this even in a totally otherwise

1030
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:52,260
sober State I think uh the the one

1031
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:54,240
experience that I have the mouth rings a

1032
00:41:58,849 --> 00:41:55,920
bell with that is when I saw the the

1033
00:42:01,010 --> 00:41:58,859
total solar eclipse a few years ago cool

1034
00:42:03,470 --> 00:42:01,020
and it has to actually just gave me a

1035
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:03,480
shiver just thinking about it uh it's

1036
00:42:07,250 --> 00:42:05,040
it's it's

1037
00:42:11,390 --> 00:42:07,260
um it was something that was expected

1038
00:42:13,490 --> 00:42:11,400
how it reacted to it uh I was on this

1039
00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:13,500
this kind of Hilltop with some some

1040
00:42:17,870 --> 00:42:14,940
friends and some other people I didn't

1041
00:42:19,849 --> 00:42:17,880
know and we were kind of all you know it

1042
00:42:20,890 --> 00:42:19,859
was kind of getting dark because you

1043
00:42:25,190 --> 00:42:20,900
either

1044
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:25,200
little solar eclipse uh and yeah it

1045
00:42:28,069 --> 00:42:26,640
didn't like anything special like there

1046
00:42:29,329 --> 00:42:28,079
was some guy rambling on about something

1047
00:42:31,250 --> 00:42:29,339
we were getting annoyed and we're trying

1048
00:42:34,190 --> 00:42:31,260
to away from him and then kind of all of

1049
00:42:36,410 --> 00:42:34,200
a sudden like went into this this total

1050
00:42:38,569 --> 00:42:36,420
eclipse and it was just the most amazing

1051
00:42:40,069 --> 00:42:38,579
thing I've ever seen in my life and it

1052
00:42:42,130 --> 00:42:40,079
you know like I say it's giving me

1053
00:42:45,290 --> 00:42:42,140
shivers right now thinking about it

1054
00:42:47,750 --> 00:42:45,300
so yeah I think you know there is such a

1055
00:42:50,270 --> 00:42:47,760
thing as uh aesthetic and I had it right

1056
00:42:54,109 --> 00:42:52,370
yeah does that sort of does that like a

1057
00:42:57,349 --> 00:42:54,119
logical aspect interest you particularly

1058
00:42:59,329 --> 00:42:57,359
or is like your your orientation is more

1059
00:43:02,329 --> 00:42:59,339
like towards the physical

1060
00:43:04,670 --> 00:43:02,339
um yeah mathematical kind of orientation

1061
00:43:06,170 --> 00:43:04,680
because that's your background do you

1062
00:43:08,990 --> 00:43:06,180
really hear much about the psychological

1063
00:43:12,050 --> 00:43:09,000
yeah I do think about it quite a lot uh

1064
00:43:14,329 --> 00:43:12,060
the problem is it's difficult to get a

1065
00:43:17,089 --> 00:43:14,339
hold of difficult to do anything with it

1066
00:43:19,730 --> 00:43:17,099
and so I tend to dig more with the nuts

1067
00:43:21,770 --> 00:43:19,740
faults type things but I I often think

1068
00:43:23,630 --> 00:43:21,780
about

1069
00:43:27,530 --> 00:43:23,640
you know I was just think today

1070
00:43:30,770 --> 00:43:27,540
about black triangles so yeah black

1071
00:43:33,770 --> 00:43:30,780
triangles uh are something that's quite

1072
00:43:37,250 --> 00:43:33,780
commonly seen people often describe what

1073
00:43:40,069 --> 00:43:37,260
they saw as a black triangle and yeah

1074
00:43:43,069 --> 00:43:40,079
just thinking because it's because

1075
00:43:45,650 --> 00:43:43,079
someone mentioned like uh micro dosing

1076
00:43:46,970 --> 00:43:45,660
and you know SD and things like that at

1077
00:43:50,450 --> 00:43:46,980
some point on something I was listening

1078
00:43:53,089 --> 00:43:50,460
to I was thinking you know is there some

1079
00:43:56,030 --> 00:43:53,099
people neurological reason why people

1080
00:43:57,829 --> 00:43:56,040
see black triangles and that made me

1081
00:43:59,690 --> 00:43:57,839
think that there's there are some

1082
00:44:02,210 --> 00:43:59,700
theories about

1083
00:44:05,170 --> 00:44:02,220
you know what people say

1084
00:44:07,670 --> 00:44:05,180
and they they take uh

1085
00:44:10,370 --> 00:44:07,680
various types of drugs which which give

1086
00:44:11,809 --> 00:44:10,380
them these ultimateal states and one of

1087
00:44:13,010 --> 00:44:11,819
the theories about what they see is that

1088
00:44:15,410 --> 00:44:13,020
it's actually reflecting the direction

1089
00:44:17,630 --> 00:44:15,420
of the brain like the brain just doesn't

1090
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:17,640
leap inside it's in visual text

1091
00:44:23,809 --> 00:44:21,359
assistant uh Arrangement and when you

1092
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:23,819
when you take these these drugs it kind

1093
00:44:28,490 --> 00:44:25,920
of blurs the boundaries between regions

1094
00:44:30,050 --> 00:44:28,500
of the brain so the the visual text is

1095
00:44:31,730 --> 00:44:30,060
kind of seeing the shape of the brain

1096
00:44:34,309 --> 00:44:31,740
around it and the activity and the Brain

1097
00:44:35,690 --> 00:44:34,319
around it and so these these things that

1098
00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:35,700
people see these kind of like things

1099
00:44:40,130 --> 00:44:37,440
like mandalas and things like that could

1100
00:44:43,790 --> 00:44:40,140
be kind of like the Centric blossoming

1101
00:44:45,710 --> 00:44:43,800
of electrons of news firing in the brain

1102
00:44:48,890 --> 00:44:45,720
and it could it be that something like

1103
00:44:52,130 --> 00:44:48,900
black triangle you know go across your

1104
00:44:53,630 --> 00:44:52,140
build of vision is things similar could

1105
00:44:56,510 --> 00:44:53,640
it be something that's that's something

1106
00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:56,520
that's induced by an altered mental

1107
00:45:01,250 --> 00:44:58,560
state perhaps chemically induced like

1108
00:45:03,170 --> 00:45:01,260
perhaps naturally uh altered that's

1109
00:45:05,630 --> 00:45:03,180
creating this common hallucination

1110
00:45:08,089 --> 00:45:05,640
between people and you've got things

1111
00:45:10,430 --> 00:45:08,099
like jungi and archetypes and the [\h__\h]

1112
00:45:12,349 --> 00:45:10,440
collectible Consciousness but we also

1113
00:45:13,790 --> 00:45:12,359
have a shared biology and we have a

1114
00:45:18,609 --> 00:45:13,800
shared neurology

1115
00:45:21,430 --> 00:45:18,619
so have a shared uh kind of reaction to

1116
00:45:22,990 --> 00:45:21,440
visual Illusions but we may also have

1117
00:45:25,670 --> 00:45:23,000
shared

1118
00:45:27,410 --> 00:45:25,680
hallucinations that are the result of

1119
00:45:28,910 --> 00:45:27,420
altered mental States for things like

1120
00:45:31,609 --> 00:45:28,920
stress or you know even flight

1121
00:45:33,410 --> 00:45:31,619
dehydration or even just occasional you

1122
00:45:37,069 --> 00:45:33,420
know vertical or whatever like that uh

1123
00:45:38,990 --> 00:45:37,079
you know transient uh uh transient I

1124
00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:39,000
think is ischemic it acts like when

1125
00:45:45,530 --> 00:45:42,480
you're a minor micro uh strong in the

1126
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:45,540
brain thing that causes

1127
00:45:51,230 --> 00:45:47,760
share type of

1128
00:45:53,870 --> 00:45:51,240
visualization of the UFO

1129
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:53,880
can I do with that it's like it's just a

1130
00:45:59,809 --> 00:45:56,880
theory you know how I can't test it

1131
00:46:00,829 --> 00:45:59,819
well so I tend to stay with the uh the

1132
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:00,839
nuts

1133
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:04,079
let me uh jump in now uh since uh there

1134
00:46:10,550 --> 00:46:07,200
are some excuse me truth Seekers uh in

1135
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:10,560
the chat who are complaining about our

1136
00:46:16,370 --> 00:46:13,680
um skeptical perspective I will just In

1137
00:46:18,410 --> 00:46:16,380
This Moment uh take this opportunity to

1138
00:46:21,410 --> 00:46:18,420
again make sure that I am never

1139
00:46:24,770 --> 00:46:21,420
qualified for public office

1140
00:46:26,690 --> 00:46:24,780
um with the black triangles we have a

1141
00:46:28,430 --> 00:46:26,700
number of people I've spoken to uh over

1142
00:46:30,770 --> 00:46:28,440
the last couple of years uh skeptical

1143
00:46:31,970 --> 00:46:30,780
people who um swear that they've seen

1144
00:46:34,010 --> 00:46:31,980
these things so there seems to be

1145
00:46:35,809 --> 00:46:34,020
something happening with that along the

1146
00:46:38,329 --> 00:46:35,819
lines uh you know we don't know exactly

1147
00:46:40,490 --> 00:46:38,339
what the cause is something I'd love to

1148
00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:40,500
lean into for a second and hear your

1149
00:46:46,910 --> 00:46:43,920
perspective Mick is that we have this

1150
00:46:49,430 --> 00:46:46,920
Declassified report from 2000 in the UK

1151
00:46:51,410 --> 00:46:49,440
the guardian reported extensively on it

1152
00:46:53,870 --> 00:46:51,420
it was Declassified in 2006 after a

1153
00:46:56,589 --> 00:46:53,880
newly done Freedom of Information laws

1154
00:46:59,510 --> 00:46:56,599
it's a genuine report we see that the

1155
00:47:02,270 --> 00:46:59,520
di55 briefed the top Ministry of Defense

1156
00:47:04,910 --> 00:47:02,280
leadership that UFOs with the classic

1157
00:47:07,130 --> 00:47:04,920
eyewitness features are real phenomena

1158
00:47:10,490 --> 00:47:07,140
that are some kind of atmospheric plasma

1159
00:47:12,730 --> 00:47:10,500
and it goes into detail about how these

1160
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:12,740
uh ball lightning-like phenomena can

1161
00:47:16,490 --> 00:47:14,400
electromagnetically couple to one

1162
00:47:18,650 --> 00:47:16,500
another in the atmosphere in geometric

1163
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:18,660
shapes because of the nature of plasma

1164
00:47:22,190 --> 00:47:20,400
crystallization it forms geometric

1165
00:47:23,870 --> 00:47:22,200
shapes and then it forms a light

1166
00:47:26,690 --> 00:47:23,880
scattering effect or produced as a light

1167
00:47:28,190 --> 00:47:26,700
scattering effect between the uh coupled

1168
00:47:29,870 --> 00:47:28,200
ball Lightnings and this is apparently

1169
00:47:32,630 --> 00:47:29,880
what according to the guardian of BBC

1170
00:47:35,569 --> 00:47:32,640
Top UK leadership was briefed on

1171
00:47:37,490 --> 00:47:35,579
um when you hear something like that and

1172
00:47:38,870 --> 00:47:37,500
there are so many Skeptics uh that I've

1173
00:47:41,210 --> 00:47:38,880
spoken to say that have seen this kind

1174
00:47:44,089 --> 00:47:41,220
of thing and then there's these internal

1175
00:47:45,650 --> 00:47:44,099
reports making these interesting claims

1176
00:47:47,510 --> 00:47:45,660
and then in the most recent the

1177
00:47:50,390 --> 00:47:47,520
classical memos from the UAP study group

1178
00:47:52,670 --> 00:47:50,400
in NASA the lead director is citing

1179
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:52,680
something called skirmions which are all

1180
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:54,000
lightning-like phenomena that form

1181
00:47:58,309 --> 00:47:55,680
geometric shapes including triangles in

1182
00:48:00,470 --> 00:47:58,319
the lab so and we know that plasma is

1183
00:48:02,569 --> 00:48:00,480
scaling so that it on the time scale is

1184
00:48:04,849 --> 00:48:02,579
the same on a big scale what do you

1185
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:04,859
think is there anything there where we

1186
00:48:08,809 --> 00:48:06,720
can think about that being a possibility

1187
00:48:11,390 --> 00:48:08,819
or is that uh just causing problems for

1188
00:48:13,069 --> 00:48:11,400
the conversation no I think it's it's

1189
00:48:15,530 --> 00:48:13,079
something I I would certainly wouldn't

1190
00:48:18,109 --> 00:48:15,540
want to roll it out you know you talked

1191
00:48:20,809 --> 00:48:18,119
about uh how you know there's a new Full

1192
00:48:23,870 --> 00:48:20,819
of plasma weather phenomena called Steve

1193
00:48:25,670 --> 00:48:23,880
that's just been described it's kind of

1194
00:48:27,170 --> 00:48:25,680
a ridiculous name but uh you know that's

1195
00:48:29,450 --> 00:48:27,180
that's what it is but you know we have

1196
00:48:32,569 --> 00:48:29,460
we have Sprites and what and uh

1197
00:48:34,490 --> 00:48:32,579
the other ones the other so

1198
00:48:37,309 --> 00:48:34,500
we're discovering new things there was a

1199
00:48:39,589 --> 00:48:37,319
new thing called a crown Flash

1200
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:39,599
Crown flash uh if you've never seen

1201
00:48:43,730 --> 00:48:41,760
those on the top of a storm cloud you

1202
00:48:46,130 --> 00:48:43,740
get this kind of little Arc Light in it

1203
00:48:48,829 --> 00:48:46,140
like goes from one side to the other

1204
00:48:52,370 --> 00:48:48,839
looks really amazing wasn't captured on

1205
00:48:53,930 --> 00:48:52,380
video before I think like 2011. uh and

1206
00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:53,940
it's not likely it's just newly invented

1207
00:48:56,870 --> 00:48:55,440
it's always been there it's just that no

1208
00:48:58,910 --> 00:48:56,880
one's really noticed it no one's

1209
00:49:00,770 --> 00:48:58,920
actually captured it on video so it's

1210
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:00,780
entirely possible that our atmosphere

1211
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:03,839
phenomena that we just simply

1212
00:49:07,910 --> 00:49:05,760
haven't captured because they're

1213
00:49:10,849 --> 00:49:07,920
relatively there you know when they

1214
00:49:13,130 --> 00:49:10,859
instigated Foo Fighters in which I'm

1215
00:49:15,950 --> 00:49:13,140
sure you know like you know one of they

1216
00:49:18,530 --> 00:49:15,960
theorists about Foo Fighters was that

1217
00:49:21,890 --> 00:49:18,540
they were very very rare atmospheric

1218
00:49:24,890 --> 00:49:21,900
phenomena were only being seen because

1219
00:49:26,510 --> 00:49:24,900
there was a huge amount of of air

1220
00:49:30,410 --> 00:49:26,520
traffic where the norm wouldn't be any

1221
00:49:33,470 --> 00:49:30,420
you know they didn't used to be this big

1222
00:49:36,589 --> 00:49:33,480
uh conduit of air traffic at 20

1223
00:49:37,970 --> 00:49:36,599
000 to 30 000 feet between uh between

1224
00:49:41,809 --> 00:49:37,980
Europe between

1225
00:49:44,990 --> 00:49:41,819
England and and Europe uh until you know

1226
00:49:47,329 --> 00:49:45,000
the the 1940s and all of a sudden were

1227
00:49:50,690 --> 00:49:47,339
sometimes like many thousands of Lights

1228
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:50,700
per day with with these pilots and

1229
00:49:55,069 --> 00:49:53,520
either there was that you know

1230
00:49:57,950 --> 00:49:55,079
is something that's always been there

1231
00:49:59,809 --> 00:49:57,960
but we just never noticed it before uh

1232
00:50:01,970 --> 00:49:59,819
but

1233
00:50:03,650 --> 00:50:01,980
then we've got we've had lots of flights

1234
00:50:06,470 --> 00:50:03,660
since and people aren't really noticing

1235
00:50:08,450 --> 00:50:06,480
it even though you know uh you know

1236
00:50:10,250 --> 00:50:08,460
we're not in in Wartime anymore now we

1237
00:50:12,589 --> 00:50:10,260
actually have lots of uh of regular

1238
00:50:15,109 --> 00:50:12,599
flights uh at those altitudes and no

1239
00:50:16,190 --> 00:50:15,119
one's really seeing it so that that

1240
00:50:17,390 --> 00:50:16,200
ounce didn't really power but it's

1241
00:50:19,550 --> 00:50:17,400
something that was very seriously

1242
00:50:21,050 --> 00:50:19,560
considered and it might still have a bit

1243
00:50:24,710 --> 00:50:21,060
of truth to it

1244
00:50:27,230 --> 00:50:24,720
I don't know how well it explains uh

1245
00:50:28,730 --> 00:50:27,240
the sightings that we've been seeing you

1246
00:50:31,069 --> 00:50:28,740
know black triangles you know you could

1247
00:50:33,050 --> 00:50:31,079
perhaps imagine if there's three plasma

1248
00:50:35,809 --> 00:50:33,060
balls and they're kind of somehow held

1249
00:50:38,510 --> 00:50:35,819
in a geometric structure and then yeah

1250
00:50:41,170 --> 00:50:38,520
but uh you know plasma is generally by

1251
00:50:43,490 --> 00:50:41,180
its nature of the very fairly luminous

1252
00:50:45,530 --> 00:50:43,500
and you know you kind of wouldn't really

1253
00:50:46,910 --> 00:50:45,540
expect to simulate through balls that uh

1254
00:50:48,770 --> 00:50:46,920
don't have anything between them I guess

1255
00:50:50,809 --> 00:50:48,780
you could have some Thin filaments

1256
00:50:53,650 --> 00:50:50,819
around the edges or something like that

1257
00:50:57,290 --> 00:50:53,660
but anyway I guess the my answer is the

1258
00:50:59,510 --> 00:50:57,300
uh I wouldn't really doubt but I would

1259
00:51:00,890 --> 00:50:59,520
like to see better evidence that's kind

1260
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:00,900
of like my answer for a lot of things

1261
00:51:06,290 --> 00:51:03,839
you know with uh with even like the

1262
00:51:09,349 --> 00:51:06,300
non-human intelligence hypothesis or

1263
00:51:11,210 --> 00:51:09,359
even like dimensional trails you know

1264
00:51:12,650 --> 00:51:11,220
I'm not going to rule it out

1265
00:51:14,930 --> 00:51:12,660
but

1266
00:51:17,809 --> 00:51:14,940
yeah I put it somewhere on a list

1267
00:51:20,210 --> 00:51:17,819
hypotheses uh generally not very high

1268
00:51:22,490 --> 00:51:20,220
because they're a far more plausible uh

1269
00:51:23,690 --> 00:51:22,500
answers that are that are higher but you

1270
00:51:26,510 --> 00:51:23,700
know

1271
00:51:28,730 --> 00:51:26,520
uh to explore some UFOs I think is going

1272
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:28,740
to be higher up the list than uh

1273
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,410
terribly reasonable yeah

1274
00:51:40,870 --> 00:51:38,990
what about the Nimitz encounters

1275
00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:40,880
um have you sort of thought about

1276
00:51:45,049 --> 00:51:43,440
like a chronology of events that you

1277
00:51:47,870 --> 00:51:45,059
favor because you you might have read

1278
00:51:49,490 --> 00:51:47,880
our Paradox um work on that but do you

1279
00:51:53,150 --> 00:51:49,500
have a sort of specific chronology that

1280
00:51:55,250 --> 00:51:53,160
you would sort of uh Hazard yeah I guess

1281
00:51:57,349 --> 00:51:55,260
so I mean like uh maybe we know the

1282
00:51:59,990 --> 00:51:57,359
chronology so you what you're saying is

1283
00:52:02,809 --> 00:52:00,000
like well how do I explain each stage of

1284
00:52:05,329 --> 00:52:02,819
that you know each of those events uh I

1285
00:52:07,549 --> 00:52:05,339
think first of all the there's a lot of

1286
00:52:09,950 --> 00:52:07,559
um not a lot but there's a degree of

1287
00:52:13,309 --> 00:52:09,960
uncertainty a degree of conflict between

1288
00:52:16,490 --> 00:52:13,319
the accounts uh like we know the big one

1289
00:52:19,069 --> 00:52:16,500
obviously is that uh uh Commander David

1290
00:52:21,650 --> 00:52:19,079
Travis says this or the the Tic Tac for

1291
00:52:23,870 --> 00:52:21,660
five minutes and uh Alex Dietrich she

1292
00:52:27,710 --> 00:52:23,880
only saw it for 10 seconds which is a

1293
00:52:30,109 --> 00:52:27,720
huge you know this uh this difference in

1294
00:52:31,970 --> 00:52:30,119
those two things uh but then there are

1295
00:52:34,670 --> 00:52:31,980
other sort of change like say Kevin days

1296
00:52:36,589 --> 00:52:34,680
is the freight told him that the the Tic

1297
00:52:38,690 --> 00:52:36,599
Tac did barrel rolls around his plane he

1298
00:52:40,970 --> 00:52:38,700
told that fraver was screaming in Terror

1299
00:52:43,010 --> 00:52:40,980
when he called it in and Trevor says

1300
00:52:44,569 --> 00:52:43,020
like nothing like ever happened so you

1301
00:52:47,450 --> 00:52:44,579
know then but then Kevin day is awesome

1302
00:52:48,950 --> 00:52:47,460
guy who tells us all about the radar uh

1303
00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:48,960
and he got the other thing wrong but

1304
00:52:51,410 --> 00:52:50,160
maybe you got something else wrong so

1305
00:52:53,690 --> 00:52:51,420
the least difference

1306
00:52:56,809 --> 00:52:53,700
services but you know if I was to kind

1307
00:52:58,730 --> 00:52:56,819
of do a narrative of

1308
00:52:59,990 --> 00:52:58,740
um on their messy encounter you know

1309
00:53:02,450 --> 00:53:00,000
basically

1310
00:53:04,630 --> 00:53:02,460
they're doing this this work of exercise

1311
00:53:08,510 --> 00:53:04,640
in coast of California

1312
00:53:10,430 --> 00:53:08,520
and they see these these things on the

1313
00:53:11,809 --> 00:53:10,440
radar they're seeing these these groups

1314
00:53:13,250 --> 00:53:11,819
of five things that are slowly

1315
00:53:16,370 --> 00:53:13,260
descending from the north to the South

1316
00:53:17,630 --> 00:53:16,380
about 100 dot uh this is something that

1317
00:53:20,329 --> 00:53:17,640
went on for several days and I think

1318
00:53:21,890 --> 00:53:20,339
it's agreed upon by more than one person

1319
00:53:22,970 --> 00:53:21,900
so we're fairly sure that that actually

1320
00:53:25,010 --> 00:53:22,980
happened

1321
00:53:26,870 --> 00:53:25,020
uh they reported captain and he wasn't

1322
00:53:29,089 --> 00:53:26,880
too bothered about it so it was probably

1323
00:53:31,730 --> 00:53:29,099
some kind of um phenomenon some kind of

1324
00:53:34,549 --> 00:53:31,740
glitch that rebooting the the radar and

1325
00:53:37,130 --> 00:53:34,559
stuff uh the radar had been very

1326
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:37,140
recently up upgraded I think the upgrade

1327
00:53:41,150 --> 00:53:39,119
perhaps just a few days earlier because

1328
00:53:43,130 --> 00:53:41,160
of the you know the the work that they

1329
00:53:46,670 --> 00:53:43,140
were doing uh

1330
00:53:48,049 --> 00:53:46,680
so after a few days of that Kevin Day

1331
00:53:51,230 --> 00:53:48,059
persuades the captain that they should

1332
00:53:54,109 --> 00:53:51,240
send a plane out to investigate so they

1333
00:53:57,650 --> 00:53:54,119
get fraver and and Dietrich and they're

1334
00:54:00,049 --> 00:53:57,660
out there they investigate and they when

1335
00:54:01,670 --> 00:54:00,059
they arrive at the location where the

1336
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:01,680
thing is supposed to be they can't see

1337
00:54:05,930 --> 00:54:04,079
it for a while it was 20 000 feet

1338
00:54:07,390 --> 00:54:05,940
there's nothing there then they see

1339
00:54:11,809 --> 00:54:07,400
something down at the water

1340
00:54:14,329 --> 00:54:11,819
and um yeah they see this exactly so

1341
00:54:17,150 --> 00:54:14,339
yeah what's my hypothesis uh I think

1342
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:17,160
clearly for the first thing the radar

1343
00:54:19,970 --> 00:54:18,720
things are probably radar glitches

1344
00:54:22,430 --> 00:54:19,980
there's probably something wrong with

1345
00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:22,440
radar and it's a combination of of that

1346
00:54:26,990 --> 00:54:25,200
like the new software on the radar plus

1347
00:54:28,430 --> 00:54:27,000
some kind of weather condition or some

1348
00:54:30,470 --> 00:54:28,440
kind of type echo or something that's

1349
00:54:33,530 --> 00:54:30,480
not being properly handled by the radar

1350
00:54:35,089 --> 00:54:33,540
because it's new new software or a new

1351
00:54:36,589 --> 00:54:35,099
system or there's something wrong one of

1352
00:54:37,730 --> 00:54:36,599
the horns on the thing isn't isn't

1353
00:54:42,109 --> 00:54:37,740
working

1354
00:54:43,250 --> 00:54:42,119
uh then what uh deep and uh and privacy

1355
00:54:46,010 --> 00:54:43,260
I think it's really something different

1356
00:54:48,109 --> 00:54:46,020
I think it's unrelated I don't think

1357
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:48,119
these are the same at all I think that

1358
00:54:52,309 --> 00:54:50,400
they went over there and saw something

1359
00:54:53,870 --> 00:54:52,319
don't know what any other accounts vary

1360
00:54:56,870 --> 00:54:53,880
quite a bit and there's another guy Jim

1361
00:54:59,150 --> 00:54:56,880
slay who has uh uh who was in in the

1362
00:55:01,970 --> 00:54:59,160
back seat of dietrich's plane he can

1363
00:55:05,809 --> 00:55:01,980
account that you know he's very short

1364
00:55:08,809 --> 00:55:05,819
but uh the seu the scientific Coalition

1365
00:55:11,150 --> 00:55:08,819
on mythology they have an interview with

1366
00:55:12,770 --> 00:55:11,160
him where they've released tickets of it

1367
00:55:14,870 --> 00:55:12,780
they haven't released the whole

1368
00:55:16,970 --> 00:55:14,880
interview for space noise yeah a little

1369
00:55:18,829 --> 00:55:16,980
suspicious actually I I feel like there

1370
00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:18,839
may be stuff in the further conflicts

1371
00:55:26,390 --> 00:55:21,440
with the account but he said things like

1372
00:55:28,790 --> 00:55:26,400
the attack had like this uh some kind of

1373
00:55:30,770 --> 00:55:28,800
um like heat haze around it nobody else

1374
00:55:32,690 --> 00:55:30,780
saw that forever didn't see it it was

1375
00:55:34,069 --> 00:55:32,700
much closer so there's always different

1376
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:34,079
to camera

1377
00:55:38,329 --> 00:55:36,720
so I think something was seen I don't

1378
00:55:40,790 --> 00:55:38,339
know what it was you know I don't really

1379
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:40,800
have a very good hypothesis if I was to

1380
00:55:45,130 --> 00:55:42,960
list like a couple of them the first one

1381
00:55:48,890 --> 00:55:45,140
might be some kind of uh balloon

1382
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:48,900
strawberry like uh they're using a radar

1383
00:55:54,170 --> 00:55:52,319
like a radar icon or you know Rayo

1384
00:55:57,130 --> 00:55:54,180
antenna that's like on a tethered

1385
00:55:59,990 --> 00:55:57,140
balloon and the balloon starts rising up

1386
00:56:01,910 --> 00:56:00,000
and when fraver flies down there's some

1387
00:56:04,490 --> 00:56:01,920
kind of power light action he thinks

1388
00:56:07,490 --> 00:56:04,500
it's uh over here actually over here and

1389
00:56:09,530 --> 00:56:07,500
so he thinks that it's going around him

1390
00:56:12,049 --> 00:56:09,540
when he's going around it there's this

1391
00:56:14,809 --> 00:56:12,059
big confusion and then then he loses

1392
00:56:16,790 --> 00:56:14,819
because it's something it goes it just

1393
00:56:18,589 --> 00:56:16,800
doesn't it's not where he thinks he does

1394
00:56:20,390 --> 00:56:18,599
so I think it's you know something else

1395
00:56:22,730 --> 00:56:20,400
it could be something else like a drone

1396
00:56:24,349 --> 00:56:22,740
or a missile test or something like that

1397
00:56:26,089 --> 00:56:24,359
but yeah I don't really have a good idea

1398
00:56:27,970 --> 00:56:26,099
what it is

1399
00:56:31,069 --> 00:56:27,980
then the next thing that happens

1400
00:56:33,950 --> 00:56:31,079
is uh Chad Underwood goes out I think

1401
00:56:37,609 --> 00:56:33,960
like 14 minutes or an hour later and he

1402
00:56:40,130 --> 00:56:37,619
flies off and he believe gets a ping on

1403
00:56:43,910 --> 00:56:40,140
his radar points exactly in Direction

1404
00:56:46,430 --> 00:56:43,920
and he gets uh this this blurry little

1405
00:56:48,410 --> 00:56:46,440
lob off in the distance and we have this

1406
00:56:49,609 --> 00:56:48,420
famous Flair one video that's something

1407
00:56:52,490 --> 00:56:49,619
else

1408
00:56:54,010 --> 00:56:52,500
again in Thailand I think these like

1409
00:56:58,609 --> 00:56:54,020
three different things

1410
00:57:00,410 --> 00:56:58,619
inflated to one event yeah there's one

1411
00:57:02,210 --> 00:57:00,420
whole situation with the Nimitz but the

1412
00:57:03,950 --> 00:57:02,220
the three different things so I think he

1413
00:57:06,230 --> 00:57:03,960
was probably

1414
00:57:06,910 --> 00:57:06,240
looking at something like a distant deck

1415
00:57:09,530 --> 00:57:06,920
right

1416
00:57:11,870 --> 00:57:09,540
uh or perhaps something like a drone or

1417
00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:11,880
something like that uh there was just

1418
00:57:14,630 --> 00:57:12,720
Lee

1419
00:57:15,349 --> 00:57:14,640
buying away from him and a bit to the

1420
00:57:17,809 --> 00:57:15,359
left

1421
00:57:19,790 --> 00:57:17,819
and I think he was moving around people

1422
00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:19,800
say it's moving around but I think

1423
00:57:25,130 --> 00:57:22,319
that's still camera motion and the the

1424
00:57:28,790 --> 00:57:25,140
closing lock as they they switch lenses

1425
00:57:30,650 --> 00:57:28,800
and things like that so uh that video

1426
00:57:32,270 --> 00:57:30,660
shows anything amazing

1427
00:57:33,770 --> 00:57:32,280
and then there's a few other things that

1428
00:57:36,290 --> 00:57:33,780
are kind of mixed in people said they're

1429
00:57:37,730 --> 00:57:36,300
using they've been Killers to look in it

1430
00:57:40,250 --> 00:57:37,740
in Direction and they saw some white

1431
00:57:41,870 --> 00:57:40,260
dots those white dots could be could be

1432
00:57:43,549 --> 00:57:41,880
planes or they could be they could be

1433
00:57:45,049 --> 00:57:43,559
seagull I don't want to say seagulls

1434
00:57:46,849 --> 00:57:45,059
because people will stop to admir jokes

1435
00:57:49,190 --> 00:57:46,859
about sequels but

1436
00:57:50,870 --> 00:57:49,200
across Eagles in the sea and if you look

1437
00:57:52,370 --> 00:57:50,880
for ridiculous you might you might

1438
00:57:53,210 --> 00:57:52,380
actually see some seagulls in the

1439
00:57:55,490 --> 00:57:53,220
distance

1440
00:57:57,230 --> 00:57:55,500
these again different things so I think

1441
00:57:59,390 --> 00:57:57,240
a whole bunch of different things got

1442
00:58:01,730 --> 00:57:59,400
mixed together in what we think of as

1443
00:58:04,069 --> 00:58:01,740
being this one event where you know they

1444
00:58:05,450 --> 00:58:04,079
they the the tears up on the radar and

1445
00:58:07,010 --> 00:58:05,460
they go out and they film it and they

1446
00:58:09,770 --> 00:58:07,020
encounter and have a video of it and

1447
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:09,780
everybody's see it but it's a whole

1448
00:58:15,109 --> 00:58:11,760
bunch of different things and

1449
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:15,119
um they're totally liked but they're not

1450
00:58:20,630 --> 00:58:17,520
all particularly amazing either

1451
00:58:21,589 --> 00:58:20,640
yep hey Nick sorry to to jump in and

1452
00:58:23,690 --> 00:58:21,599
interrupt so we're getting some

1453
00:58:25,549 --> 00:58:23,700
complaints about the um the stream

1454
00:58:27,049 --> 00:58:25,559
quality and audio would you mind

1455
00:58:28,370 --> 00:58:27,059
basically just like dropping off the

1456
00:58:30,589 --> 00:58:28,380
stream and then just reach joining

1457
00:58:32,329 --> 00:58:30,599
seeing if that helps

1458
00:58:35,390 --> 00:58:32,339
beautiful

1459
00:58:37,730 --> 00:58:35,400
thank you a bit choppy

1460
00:58:39,049 --> 00:58:37,740
all right guys he's gone let's get rid

1461
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:39,059
of him

1462
00:58:44,270 --> 00:58:41,760
we'll wait for him to come back

1463
00:58:46,609 --> 00:58:44,280
oh I figured he'd refresh but we'll try

1464
00:58:48,770 --> 00:58:46,619
hold on all right cool

1465
00:58:50,770 --> 00:58:48,780
hopefully he'll be back in just a second

1466
00:58:54,289 --> 00:58:50,780
yeah

1467
00:58:56,329 --> 00:58:54,299
well this does go to really show that um

1468
00:58:58,250 --> 00:58:56,339
when all you have is witness testimony

1469
00:58:59,569 --> 00:58:58,260
while it is important to establish the

1470
00:59:02,329 --> 00:58:59,579
story

1471
00:59:05,089 --> 00:59:02,339
um you can only ever get each witness's

1472
00:59:06,829 --> 00:59:05,099
perspective or interpretation of what

1473
00:59:09,770 --> 00:59:06,839
was happening rather than a clear

1474
00:59:12,230 --> 00:59:09,780
picture of an objective reality which is

1475
00:59:14,109 --> 00:59:12,240
I mean this is the case with most UFO

1476
00:59:16,370 --> 00:59:14,119
sightings of course

1477
00:59:19,150 --> 00:59:16,380
I wish there was some way of like sort

1478
00:59:22,849 --> 00:59:19,160
of triangulating people's psychological

1479
00:59:26,089 --> 00:59:22,859
like they're um subjective um reports to

1480
00:59:27,950 --> 00:59:26,099
try to arrive at our objective event

1481
00:59:28,970 --> 00:59:27,960
like what could possimony explain

1482
00:59:32,690 --> 00:59:28,980
everything

1483
00:59:41,089 --> 00:59:37,910
hey I'm back oh it worked dude I'm

1484
00:59:43,190 --> 00:59:41,099
getting you yeah it's beautiful no more

1485
00:59:45,650 --> 00:59:43,200
pixels just wondering if I was shouting

1486
00:59:47,390 --> 00:59:45,660
too much I was looking at my uh if it's

1487
00:59:50,870 --> 00:59:47,400
yeah okay yeah let me know if it happens

1488
00:59:53,390 --> 00:59:50,880
again okay that is smooth darn we should

1489
00:59:57,670 --> 00:59:53,400
have done that a while ago a while ago

1490
01:00:00,109 --> 00:59:57,680
yeah oh well oh wow technology

1491
01:00:06,170 --> 01:00:00,119
everything just repeat everything you've

1492
01:00:12,910 --> 01:00:08,870
I think you got the gist of it but yeah

1493
01:00:16,849 --> 01:00:12,920
it's uh I think it's all seagulls

1494
01:00:21,710 --> 01:00:20,329
I I I hate the seagull thing and yeah

1495
01:00:24,049 --> 01:00:21,720
but that's probably why people mention

1496
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:24,059
it so much because it's uh it's it's

1497
01:00:28,069 --> 01:00:26,640
it's ribbing me yeah so it's gonna be

1498
01:00:30,230 --> 01:00:28,079
rubbing me the wrong way but because

1499
01:00:32,329 --> 01:00:30,240
it's like it's silly it's annoying you

1500
01:00:34,010 --> 01:00:32,339
know I I said that one of the things you

1501
01:00:36,170 --> 01:00:34,020
might see when you're looking out of the

1502
01:00:38,030 --> 01:00:36,180
cockpit is is sequels I don't think

1503
01:00:39,710 --> 01:00:38,040
that's an explanation for anything that

1504
01:00:41,270 --> 01:00:39,720
happened in the Nimitz encounter except

1505
01:00:43,190 --> 01:00:41,280
perhaps what people were looking at

1506
01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:43,200
through the binoculars from the ship

1507
01:00:47,809 --> 01:00:45,359
well what about what about the USS

1508
01:00:49,190 --> 01:00:47,819
Ronald Reagan incident with uh the giant

1509
01:00:51,349 --> 01:00:49,200
ball I don't know if you heard about

1510
01:00:54,289 --> 01:00:51,359
that one yeah I don't know that one yeah

1511
01:00:55,730 --> 01:00:54,299
oh yeah these Navy men saw like this

1512
01:00:57,589 --> 01:00:55,740
giant sort of

1513
01:00:59,990 --> 01:00:57,599
Fireball looking thing above the

1514
01:01:02,990 --> 01:01:00,000
aircraft carrier and um

1515
01:01:06,170 --> 01:01:03,000
anyway if you haven't yeah sorry I'm not

1516
01:01:07,849 --> 01:01:06,180
familiar with that one but uh who knows

1517
01:01:09,589 --> 01:01:07,859
you know someone in the chat just said

1518
01:01:12,049 --> 01:01:09,599
seagulls are to Mick West as swamp gas

1519
01:01:14,990 --> 01:01:12,059
was to heinek and I always bring this up

1520
01:01:16,430 --> 01:01:15,000
it is a very similar situation um the

1521
01:01:18,829 --> 01:01:16,440
whole the whole swamp gas thing came

1522
01:01:20,569 --> 01:01:18,839
about in 1966 when heineck was

1523
01:01:23,150 --> 01:01:20,579
investigating um Dexter Michigan in

1524
01:01:26,510 --> 01:01:23,160
Hillsdale during that 66 Michigan flap

1525
01:01:28,609 --> 01:01:26,520
when he proposed Marsh gas igniting

1526
01:01:31,069 --> 01:01:28,619
might account for some of the peripheral

1527
01:01:32,750 --> 01:01:31,079
sightings with the Prescott hold of it

1528
01:01:35,089 --> 01:01:32,760
and said oh heineck says this is all

1529
01:01:36,650 --> 01:01:35,099
swamp gas all these uh all these

1530
01:01:38,270 --> 01:01:36,660
sightings in Michigan are swamp guests

1531
01:01:40,490 --> 01:01:38,280
and that's eventually we've got the ball

1532
01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:40,500
rolling to the uh the common report but

1533
01:01:46,250 --> 01:01:43,680
it's it's the same thing well I would I

1534
01:01:48,530 --> 01:01:46,260
would recommend the the uh people look

1535
01:01:52,069 --> 01:01:48,540
at that uh press conference where he

1536
01:01:54,530 --> 01:01:52,079
talks about that exactly you can see him

1537
01:01:56,750 --> 01:01:54,540
going through great pains in the same

1538
01:01:58,190 --> 01:01:56,760
where the dye sometimes do uh on Twitter

1539
01:02:04,010 --> 01:01:58,200
now

1540
01:02:07,190 --> 01:02:04,020
the Press is about to LEAP onward out to

1541
01:02:10,730 --> 01:02:07,200
say and misinterpret it oh yeah so he he

1542
01:02:12,770 --> 01:02:10,740
very explicitly says that uh you know

1543
01:02:14,270 --> 01:02:12,780
I'm not suggesting that swamp gas is an

1544
01:02:15,829 --> 01:02:14,280
expedition for all of the other

1545
01:02:17,510 --> 01:02:15,839
sightings that people have seen or all

1546
01:02:19,849 --> 01:02:17,520
UFOs I'm just saying it applies

1547
01:02:21,710 --> 01:02:19,859
specifically to this case and this this

1548
01:02:24,170 --> 01:02:21,720
is here so it's just like I think there

1549
01:02:25,670 --> 01:02:24,180
was two some Farmers looking across the

1550
01:02:27,230 --> 01:02:25,680
swamp and maybe someone looking from the

1551
01:02:30,170 --> 01:02:27,240
other direction just those two things

1552
01:02:32,089 --> 01:02:30,180
thought were probably swamp gas and he

1553
01:02:35,930 --> 01:02:32,099
wasn't even definitive on that either

1554
01:02:40,010 --> 01:02:35,940
yeah of course now that's just the joke

1555
01:02:41,390 --> 01:02:40,020
that everything is swamp gas when all he

1556
01:02:42,829 --> 01:02:41,400
was saying was it's just this one thing

1557
01:02:45,710 --> 01:02:42,839
and you know the same thing happened

1558
01:02:47,089 --> 01:02:45,720
with the seagull thing people think that

1559
01:02:48,829 --> 01:02:47,099
you know I'm saying everything is a

1560
01:02:51,289 --> 01:02:48,839
seagull actually things quite actual

1561
01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:51,299
quite ass equals these this is like a

1562
01:02:55,549 --> 01:02:53,280
yeah an unfortunate uh thing is that

1563
01:02:58,069 --> 01:02:55,559
seagulls actually are responsible for a

1564
01:03:00,470 --> 01:02:58,079
number of your sightings that I have a

1565
01:03:03,230 --> 01:03:00,480
few edibunk classic examples where

1566
01:03:04,789 --> 01:03:03,240
there's some videos of UFOs and you

1567
01:03:07,970 --> 01:03:04,799
demonstrate they're actually seagulls

1568
01:03:10,069 --> 01:03:07,980
but not the Nimitz not the gimbal not go

1569
01:03:13,190 --> 01:03:10,079
fast the green pyramids were not

1570
01:03:16,370 --> 01:03:13,200
seagulls uh the only horse here was not

1571
01:03:18,650 --> 01:03:16,380
a seagull the the sphere is not a

1572
01:03:22,190 --> 01:03:18,660
seagull either so generally they're not

1573
01:03:23,630 --> 01:03:22,200
seagulls but sometimes yeah good segue

1574
01:03:26,809 --> 01:03:23,640
um maybe we should talk on the muscle

1575
01:03:29,210 --> 01:03:26,819
sphere or most so uh orb a little bit

1576
01:03:30,410 --> 01:03:29,220
which just dropped uh what what what's

1577
01:03:32,630 --> 01:03:30,420
your take from that because I I

1578
01:03:35,270 --> 01:03:32,640
personally am not impressed by a a still

1579
01:03:36,650 --> 01:03:35,280
frame of video but I'm sure you could

1580
01:03:37,670 --> 01:03:36,660
probably illustrate that a little better

1581
01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:37,680
than me

1582
01:03:43,670 --> 01:03:41,520
yeah uh there's not a long go by you

1583
01:03:46,069 --> 01:03:43,680
know it it looks like

1584
01:03:48,230 --> 01:03:46,079
something in front of camera

1585
01:03:50,510 --> 01:03:48,240
and you don't know how far away it is I

1586
01:03:51,770 --> 01:03:50,520
was talking about that earlier uh if you

1587
01:03:53,930 --> 01:03:51,780
don't know how big one thing is you

1588
01:03:56,089 --> 01:03:53,940
don't know how far away it is

1589
01:03:58,010 --> 01:03:56,099
so things can be very very small in

1590
01:03:59,750 --> 01:03:58,020
front of the camera like say oh I got a

1591
01:04:01,309 --> 01:03:59,760
little sphere here now if it's like you

1592
01:04:02,870 --> 01:04:01,319
know close to the camera looks like it's

1593
01:04:04,309 --> 01:04:02,880
on my head but if it's like you know

1594
01:04:07,250 --> 01:04:04,319
where you're here it's you know it looks

1595
01:04:09,410 --> 01:04:07,260
really small if you don't have an alien

1596
01:04:12,289 --> 01:04:09,420
spacecraft right here on your desk Mac

1597
01:04:16,309 --> 01:04:12,299
yeah I just uh I also have some pros on

1598
01:04:22,190 --> 01:04:16,319
my desk uh Michael Jackson see that yeah

1599
01:04:24,230 --> 01:04:22,200
it I think the Moses is

1600
01:04:26,809 --> 01:04:24,240
it's a low quality

1601
01:04:31,190 --> 01:04:26,819
UFO thing and I think the reason it's

1602
01:04:34,569 --> 01:04:31,200
being made much of by by Corbell is the

1603
01:04:38,270 --> 01:04:34,579
it comes from the task force

1604
01:04:42,170 --> 01:04:38,280
but apparently it comes from the same

1605
01:04:44,390 --> 01:04:42,180
briefing as the green triangles

1606
01:04:46,430 --> 01:04:44,400
and the green triangles we know were

1607
01:04:48,770 --> 01:04:46,440
released by Jeremy Corbell it's a great

1608
01:04:52,010 --> 01:04:48,780
Fanfare like a couple of years ago now

1609
01:04:56,150 --> 01:04:52,020
maybe a year ago and he said it was the

1610
01:04:59,470 --> 01:04:56,160
greatest UFO video of government origin

1611
01:05:03,770 --> 01:04:59,480
that has ever been released of all time

1612
01:05:07,609 --> 01:05:03,780
the best yeah and it wasn't it a video

1613
01:05:10,490 --> 01:05:07,619
of mostly stars and

1614
01:05:12,470 --> 01:05:10,500
um and probably a plane maybe a drone I

1615
01:05:14,270 --> 01:05:12,480
think it's a plane yeah some flashing

1616
01:05:16,430 --> 01:05:14,280
lights and it's this this thing called

1617
01:05:18,829 --> 01:05:16,440
bogey where everything's out of focus

1618
01:05:20,930 --> 01:05:18,839
and so the sort of light up as triangles

1619
01:05:23,210 --> 01:05:20,940
you know something that Corbell still

1620
01:05:26,930 --> 01:05:23,220
denies Coppell now has started saying

1621
01:05:28,789 --> 01:05:26,940
that pyramids are a common shape of UFOs

1622
01:05:31,549 --> 01:05:28,799
you know it's an interesting podcast

1623
01:05:33,470 --> 01:05:31,559
it's you know it's kind of ridiculous so

1624
01:05:36,589 --> 01:05:33,480
consider source is what I'm saying here

1625
01:05:39,230 --> 01:05:36,599
the source of this this mosul hope thing

1626
01:05:41,150 --> 01:05:39,240
is Corbell right and it was leaked to

1627
01:05:43,549 --> 01:05:41,160
him by the same Source probably who sent

1628
01:05:45,109 --> 01:05:43,559
him this this green triangle thing

1629
01:05:47,990 --> 01:05:45,119
so I mean I could mean a couple of

1630
01:05:50,210 --> 01:05:48,000
things yeah it could mean maybe Corbell

1631
01:05:52,370 --> 01:05:50,220
isn't very Discerning it could mean that

1632
01:05:55,069 --> 01:05:52,380
the guy who sent him this this thing is

1633
01:05:57,470 --> 01:05:55,079
not very Discerning he could be in the

1634
01:06:01,250 --> 01:05:57,480
UAP task force itself

1635
01:06:04,190 --> 01:06:01,260
uh very good yeah back in the day back

1636
01:06:06,530 --> 01:06:04,200
when uh Travis Taylor was the informal

1637
01:06:09,410 --> 01:06:06,540
cheese scientist and Stratton was was

1638
01:06:11,089 --> 01:06:09,420
was running it it could be in the you

1639
01:06:12,829 --> 01:06:11,099
know they weren't doing a verge of

1640
01:06:15,470 --> 01:06:12,839
identifying things and so they see

1641
01:06:16,970 --> 01:06:15,480
things like this what's probably some

1642
01:06:19,069 --> 01:06:16,980
kind of balloon or something like that

1643
01:06:21,650 --> 01:06:19,079
like long and muscle

1644
01:06:23,210 --> 01:06:21,660
and it gets into this UFO and you know

1645
01:06:24,710 --> 01:06:23,220
it gets promoted being this amazing

1646
01:06:26,270 --> 01:06:24,720
thing when there's really very little to

1647
01:06:28,309 --> 01:06:26,280
go by other than just something that

1648
01:06:30,230 --> 01:06:28,319
drifts across the field of view

1649
01:06:32,690 --> 01:06:30,240
uh so I think it's the same type of

1650
01:06:33,890 --> 01:06:32,700
thing as with the green triangle you

1651
01:06:36,289 --> 01:06:33,900
know something that

1652
01:06:38,329 --> 01:06:36,299
somebody thought amazing but probably

1653
01:06:40,370 --> 01:06:38,339
isn't

1654
01:06:41,750 --> 01:06:40,380
hey uh we were talking backstage a

1655
01:06:43,609 --> 01:06:41,760
little earlier and it the first thing it

1656
01:06:45,890 --> 01:06:43,619
reminded me of was the video that they

1657
01:06:47,630 --> 01:06:45,900
were trying to pause in the uh the

1658
01:06:49,370 --> 01:06:47,640
Congressional UFO hearings that were

1659
01:06:55,630 --> 01:06:49,380
publicized I think last year the year

1660
01:07:01,670 --> 01:06:59,390
that video is probably a lot better than

1661
01:07:04,010 --> 01:07:01,680
you know the the mosul video or the

1662
01:07:05,630 --> 01:07:04,020
mosul frame we don't actually have you

1663
01:07:07,970 --> 01:07:05,640
know if we had video we could do a lot

1664
01:07:09,829 --> 01:07:07,980
more like at least with you know we have

1665
01:07:12,049 --> 01:07:09,839
the that the one they show in the

1666
01:07:14,089 --> 01:07:12,059
hearing only have three frames which is

1667
01:07:16,670 --> 01:07:14,099
why it was a harder to stop it because

1668
01:07:19,010 --> 01:07:16,680
they were using the which doesn't have a

1669
01:07:20,690 --> 01:07:19,020
frame advance so they had to like stop

1670
01:07:22,609 --> 01:07:20,700
exactly the right time

1671
01:07:25,250 --> 01:07:22,619
but you know you can actually tell some

1672
01:07:27,349 --> 01:07:25,260
trajectory of this object you can Right

1673
01:07:28,910 --> 01:07:27,359
freeze it and you can see how the the

1674
01:07:31,670 --> 01:07:28,920
Highlight changes slightly differently

1675
01:07:34,069 --> 01:07:31,680
between frames uh um which means you

1676
01:07:35,809 --> 01:07:34,079
know the angle's changing and you can

1677
01:07:38,210 --> 01:07:35,819
tell the the Highlight itself is

1678
01:07:39,289 --> 01:07:38,220
actually out of focus the whole thing's

1679
01:07:41,329 --> 01:07:39,299
out of focus it's probably just a

1680
01:07:43,430 --> 01:07:41,339
balloon but with one single frame

1681
01:07:46,010 --> 01:07:43,440
there's a lot of information you don't

1682
01:07:48,289 --> 01:07:46,020
have any time variant you can't actually

1683
01:07:49,849 --> 01:07:48,299
tell like how things are changing you

1684
01:07:52,549 --> 01:07:49,859
don't know which direction is moving or

1685
01:07:53,809 --> 01:07:52,559
how fast it's moving motion blur in it

1686
01:07:55,670 --> 01:07:53,819
but we don't know what the frame rate of

1687
01:07:58,309 --> 01:07:55,680
the camera is or the exposure time of

1688
01:08:01,849 --> 01:07:58,319
the camera uh so it's there's not a lot

1689
01:08:04,370 --> 01:08:01,859
we can go by yeah and yeah we've seen

1690
01:08:07,150 --> 01:08:04,380
things like this before on Google Earth

1691
01:08:09,650 --> 01:08:07,160
uh you can actually see occasionally

1692
01:08:11,390 --> 01:08:09,660
what looks like something very similar

1693
01:08:15,109 --> 01:08:11,400
appears in front of the camera a few

1694
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:15,119
places uh in in near Palm Beach Florida

1695
01:08:21,530 --> 01:08:18,480
the there is uh there's the these all

1696
01:08:25,370 --> 01:08:21,540
the like giant orbs in the sky uh in in

1697
01:08:26,930 --> 01:08:25,380
the 2002 imagery uh but yeah but it's

1698
01:08:27,769 --> 01:08:26,940
probably something that's into the

1699
01:08:30,050 --> 01:08:27,779
camera

1700
01:08:31,309 --> 01:08:30,060
and I think you know it's the same type

1701
01:08:33,050 --> 01:08:31,319
of thing in the muzzle thing we don't

1702
01:08:34,729 --> 01:08:33,060
know what it is uh it's gonna look

1703
01:08:35,749 --> 01:08:34,739
particularly interesting

1704
01:08:37,249 --> 01:08:35,759
this

1705
01:08:40,309 --> 01:08:37,259
there's an interesting thing that

1706
01:08:44,030 --> 01:08:40,319
happens with rare natural phenomena

1707
01:08:47,930 --> 01:08:44,040
where any individual instance of

1708
01:08:50,570 --> 01:08:47,940
observing it ends up being less likely

1709
01:08:53,209 --> 01:08:50,580
that it was the very rare thing then it

1710
01:08:55,370 --> 01:08:53,219
is a more prosaic thing and therefore

1711
01:08:58,130 --> 01:08:55,380
there's been a long history of natural

1712
01:08:59,809 --> 01:08:58,140
phenomena that are very rare we touched

1713
01:09:02,630 --> 01:08:59,819
on them briefly that we're not uh

1714
01:09:04,430 --> 01:09:02,640
verified sufficiently although there

1715
01:09:06,169 --> 01:09:04,440
were decades or even sometimes centuries

1716
01:09:07,910 --> 01:09:06,179
of relatively accurate eyewitness

1717
01:09:09,349 --> 01:09:07,920
reports leading up to that verification

1718
01:09:11,390 --> 01:09:09,359
and obviously we need to wait for that

1719
01:09:13,669 --> 01:09:11,400
verification and I'm just going with

1720
01:09:16,789 --> 01:09:13,679
this question uh back to JL and heineck

1721
01:09:19,010 --> 01:09:16,799
for a second because he uh in the

1722
01:09:21,950 --> 01:09:19,020
starting in the 50s uh started

1723
01:09:25,309 --> 01:09:21,960
speculating that uh UFOs might represent

1724
01:09:27,590 --> 01:09:25,319
a novel atmospheric phenomenon he dubbed

1725
01:09:29,870 --> 01:09:27,600
nocturnal Meandering lights and we know

1726
01:09:33,050 --> 01:09:29,880
that his descriptions of the eyewitness

1727
01:09:35,689 --> 01:09:33,060
reports are consistent with the features

1728
01:09:38,630 --> 01:09:35,699
of modern uh lab reproducible

1729
01:09:41,870 --> 01:09:38,640
lightning-like phenomena and we also

1730
01:09:43,849 --> 01:09:41,880
have the CIA reports saying that they

1731
01:09:45,709 --> 01:09:43,859
think that they're this kind of Novel

1732
01:09:48,189 --> 01:09:45,719
atmospheric Phenomenon with these

1733
01:09:50,450 --> 01:09:48,199
features so so

1734
01:09:53,150 --> 01:09:50,460
just if I can just finish with one set

1735
01:09:54,350 --> 01:09:53,160
if we look at Old Blue book reports this

1736
01:09:56,270 --> 01:09:54,360
is where I'm going

1737
01:09:58,490 --> 01:09:56,280
if we look at Old Blue book reports that

1738
01:10:00,410 --> 01:09:58,500
include multiple eyewitnesses radar and

1739
01:10:03,110 --> 01:10:00,420
all this stuff of objects with features

1740
01:10:06,189 --> 01:10:03,120
that are described with the same way as

1741
01:10:08,930 --> 01:10:06,199
the Nimitz Tic Tac the report actually

1742
01:10:10,850 --> 01:10:08,940
consistently a spec like Minot and such

1743
01:10:12,530 --> 01:10:10,860
a few others they say they think that

1744
01:10:14,870 --> 01:10:12,540
it's a kind of ball lightning and they

1745
01:10:15,530 --> 01:10:14,880
actually it'll end on that conclusion

1746
01:10:18,110 --> 01:10:15,540
um

1747
01:10:21,229 --> 01:10:18,120
why do you think it is that we don't see

1748
01:10:23,870 --> 01:10:21,239
that kind of uh conclusion sort of being

1749
01:10:25,250 --> 01:10:23,880
introduced even in the prime like in the

1750
01:10:27,950 --> 01:10:25,260
mainstream conversation well isn't that

1751
01:10:30,290 --> 01:10:27,960
a feature at all I think uh the bull

1752
01:10:34,669 --> 01:10:30,300
lightning explanation is something that

1753
01:10:36,229 --> 01:10:34,679
some people latch onto as being a nice

1754
01:10:38,330 --> 01:10:36,239
sounding explanation

1755
01:10:41,090 --> 01:10:38,340
yeah yeah I'm probably including you in

1756
01:10:43,370 --> 01:10:41,100
this uh that it sounds like this is your

1757
01:10:45,950 --> 01:10:43,380
favorite explanation for for a lot of

1758
01:10:48,410 --> 01:10:45,960
UFOs yeah there's nothing wrong you're a

1759
01:10:50,870 --> 01:10:48,420
plasma guy Campbell well I'll respond to

1760
01:10:53,270 --> 01:10:50,880
that happily in a moment yeah yeah and I

1761
01:10:55,250 --> 01:10:53,280
think that's something that happens with

1762
01:10:58,310 --> 01:10:55,260
um with other people with Scientists you

1763
01:11:01,189 --> 01:10:58,320
know people when their area of expertise

1764
01:11:04,910 --> 01:11:01,199
is a particular domain they tend to look

1765
01:11:07,250 --> 01:11:04,920
at things in that context they tend to

1766
01:11:09,050 --> 01:11:07,260
use you know they they they explain

1767
01:11:09,770 --> 01:11:09,060
things

1768
01:11:12,530 --> 01:11:09,780
um

1769
01:11:14,750 --> 01:11:12,540
you know as big a result of whatever

1770
01:11:19,790 --> 01:11:14,760
their area expertise is

1771
01:11:21,410 --> 01:11:19,800
uh and I I think that there

1772
01:11:22,910 --> 01:11:21,420
lots of other people with different area

1773
01:11:24,530 --> 01:11:22,920
of expertise

1774
01:11:26,450 --> 01:11:24,540
and with different different

1775
01:11:29,990 --> 01:11:26,460
perspectives on you know what the the

1776
01:11:32,330 --> 01:11:30,000
totality the evidence the uh showed and

1777
01:11:35,030 --> 01:11:32,340
they don't some reason you know rotate

1778
01:11:36,950 --> 01:11:35,040
towards uh plasma effects or lightning

1779
01:11:38,990 --> 01:11:36,960
effects and I think a lot of the people

1780
01:11:40,370 --> 01:11:39,000
even are you know experts in that type

1781
01:11:43,729 --> 01:11:40,380
of thing they're not particularly

1782
01:11:46,070 --> 01:11:43,739
interested in the UF aspects of it and I

1783
01:11:48,350 --> 01:11:46,080
think it boils down really to the actual

1784
01:11:50,689 --> 01:11:48,360
evidence that we have and you know

1785
01:11:54,530 --> 01:11:50,699
partly with you know with ball lightning

1786
01:11:56,450 --> 01:11:54,540
Etc you know these are luminous events

1787
01:11:58,729 --> 01:11:56,460
and they're the type of things that we

1788
01:12:02,270 --> 01:11:58,739
should be able to capture on on video

1789
01:12:05,330 --> 01:12:02,280
and we've got things now like meteorite

1790
01:12:07,729 --> 01:12:05,340
cameras uh full Sky meteorite cameras

1791
01:12:11,450 --> 01:12:07,739
around the world that are recording the

1792
01:12:13,790 --> 01:12:11,460
sky and there don't seem to be carrying

1793
01:12:14,930 --> 01:12:13,800
these you know these meowing nocturnal

1794
01:12:17,330 --> 01:12:14,940
lights

1795
01:12:19,669 --> 01:12:17,340
and we've also people with with cameras

1796
01:12:22,430 --> 01:12:19,679
and they don't seem to be any

1797
01:12:24,530 --> 01:12:22,440
particularly ambiguous nocturnal

1798
01:12:25,970 --> 01:12:24,540
Meandering lights either coming from

1799
01:12:27,410 --> 01:12:25,980
them you know there's lots of lights in

1800
01:12:29,510 --> 01:12:27,420
the sky which we can't tell what they

1801
01:12:32,630 --> 01:12:29,520
are but you know other things that are

1802
01:12:34,790 --> 01:12:32,640
you know only consistent with plan

1803
01:12:37,130 --> 01:12:34,800
it's something that seems to check boxes

1804
01:12:39,709 --> 01:12:37,140
and I think when people feel like the

1805
01:12:42,410 --> 01:12:39,719
checks enough boxes then you know they

1806
01:12:45,910 --> 01:12:42,420
kind of go in on that explanation but I

1807
01:12:48,470 --> 01:12:45,920
think really uh it doesn't hold up to

1808
01:12:51,229 --> 01:12:48,480
evidence uh

1809
01:12:54,110 --> 01:12:51,239
well uh that's okay so uh let me just

1810
01:12:56,209 --> 01:12:54,120
respond briefly um you suggested that I

1811
01:12:58,669 --> 01:12:56,219
um like the ball lightning explanation

1812
01:13:02,390 --> 01:12:58,679
and I would love to just explain to you

1813
01:13:04,910 --> 01:13:02,400
that I am a lifelong atheist materialist

1814
01:13:07,130 --> 01:13:04,920
I have no interest in atmospheric

1815
01:13:09,290 --> 01:13:07,140
phenomena whatsoever I have never had

1816
01:13:10,490 --> 01:13:09,300
any interest in any paranormal subject

1817
01:13:12,550 --> 01:13:10,500
whatsoever

1818
01:13:14,209 --> 01:13:12,560
I was curious about why government

1819
01:13:16,130 --> 01:13:14,219
members of the American government

1820
01:13:18,950 --> 01:13:16,140
started talking about UFOs that's why I

1821
01:13:22,729 --> 01:13:18,960
looked into this and so when I looked at

1822
01:13:26,450 --> 01:13:22,739
Wells researched Declassified internal

1823
01:13:29,050 --> 01:13:26,460
government reports that were produced to

1824
01:13:31,610 --> 01:13:29,060
brief top leadership we see at the CIA

1825
01:13:33,590 --> 01:13:31,620
U.S Air Force and the UK Ministry of

1826
01:13:37,070 --> 01:13:33,600
defense that these sincerely produce

1827
01:13:38,990 --> 01:13:37,080
reports internally all independently

1828
01:13:40,729 --> 01:13:39,000
brief top leadership that they think

1829
01:13:42,770 --> 01:13:40,739
that UFOs with the features of

1830
01:13:44,570 --> 01:13:42,780
traditional eyewitness reports are a

1831
01:13:46,729 --> 01:13:44,580
novel kind of ball lightning producing

1832
01:13:48,770 --> 01:13:46,739
these effects in the sky that was

1833
01:13:51,890 --> 01:13:48,780
surprising to me I don't want that to be

1834
01:13:53,990 --> 01:13:51,900
true I don't care if UFOs are real and

1835
01:13:54,709 --> 01:13:54,000
if they are real I don't care what they

1836
01:13:56,930 --> 01:13:54,719
are

1837
01:14:01,189 --> 01:13:56,940
the reason I got into this actually is

1838
01:14:03,530 --> 01:14:01,199
because when I went on metabunk and

1839
01:14:06,290 --> 01:14:03,540
posted dozens of peer-reviewed

1840
01:14:08,330 --> 01:14:06,300
prestigious physics papers describing

1841
01:14:11,090 --> 01:14:08,340
phenomena with the exact same features

1842
01:14:13,130 --> 01:14:11,100
as traditional eyewitness reports you

1843
01:14:15,950 --> 01:14:13,140
personally blocked that from being

1844
01:14:18,410 --> 01:14:15,960
posted on metabunk and I was so curious

1845
01:14:19,910 --> 01:14:18,420
and shocked as a skeptic that this

1846
01:14:22,669 --> 01:14:19,920
subject side of it wasn't being

1847
01:14:25,310 --> 01:14:22,679
discussed that that's what drove me into

1848
01:14:26,750 --> 01:14:25,320
it is to understand what's happening and

1849
01:14:28,550 --> 01:14:26,760
so I just want you to understand that

1850
01:14:29,930 --> 01:14:28,560
that's how where I'm coming from I truly

1851
01:14:31,970 --> 01:14:29,940
don't care about ball lightning and I

1852
01:14:34,550 --> 01:14:31,980
don't like it I have no interest in it

1853
01:14:35,990 --> 01:14:34,560
outside of this psychological component

1854
01:14:39,169 --> 01:14:36,000
of this subject

1855
01:14:40,910 --> 01:14:39,179
yeah I mean you you know looked at us

1856
01:14:45,050 --> 01:14:40,920
you aesthetically or anything like that

1857
01:14:47,390 --> 01:14:45,060
I meant that you you think that it's uh

1858
01:14:50,990 --> 01:14:47,400
a highly plausible explanation is

1859
01:14:53,810 --> 01:14:51,000
significance I don't know I'm not a

1860
01:14:55,910 --> 01:14:53,820
scientist uh I'm not uh so I'm not a

1861
01:14:58,729 --> 01:14:55,920
government agent so if I if I just

1862
01:14:59,870 --> 01:14:58,739
report that dozens of peer-reviewed

1863
01:15:01,250 --> 01:14:59,880
papers this is something I find so

1864
01:15:03,830 --> 01:15:01,260
interesting when I say that there's a

1865
01:15:05,330 --> 01:15:03,840
lot of Skeptics they say yes but when I

1866
01:15:06,890 --> 01:15:05,340
first heard that there were dozens of

1867
01:15:08,270 --> 01:15:06,900
peer-reviewed prestigious physics papers

1868
01:15:09,709 --> 01:15:08,280
describing objects with the same

1869
01:15:13,130 --> 01:15:09,719
features as traditional eyewitness

1870
01:15:15,709 --> 01:15:13,140
reports of UFOs I got curious and I read

1871
01:15:17,510 --> 01:15:15,719
them because I thought that was wild and

1872
01:15:19,370 --> 01:15:17,520
that's the thing that I find so neat

1873
01:15:21,950 --> 01:15:19,380
about the skeptic Community is that they

1874
01:15:23,149 --> 01:15:21,960
are like yes but and I think there's

1875
01:15:25,910 --> 01:15:23,159
something there that we should really

1876
01:15:28,370 --> 01:15:25,920
lean into all right well yeah the reason

1877
01:15:31,070 --> 01:15:28,380
I would have deleted from that bank is

1878
01:15:34,310 --> 01:15:31,080
the all metabolic look into individual

1879
01:15:36,530 --> 01:15:34,320
claims of evidence uh like we said

1880
01:15:38,390 --> 01:15:36,540
there's a particular case of a UFO or

1881
01:15:39,770 --> 01:15:38,400
there's a particular thing that happened

1882
01:15:42,470 --> 01:15:39,780
and there's a particular claim of

1883
01:15:45,709 --> 01:15:42,480
evidence and if you just put a large

1884
01:15:48,169 --> 01:15:45,719
tranche of peppers there that's not

1885
01:15:50,810 --> 01:15:48,179
really what the bank is about

1886
01:15:52,850 --> 01:15:50,820
that's fair the what the thing you

1887
01:15:55,070 --> 01:15:52,860
selected uh just to say the thing you

1888
01:15:57,229 --> 01:15:55,080
selected was not a single uh claim of

1889
01:15:59,149 --> 01:15:57,239
evidence was cited and it's like all

1890
01:16:02,090 --> 01:15:59,159
directly so that's what freaked me out a

1891
01:16:04,550 --> 01:16:02,100
little bit right but that means that you

1892
01:16:06,770 --> 01:16:04,560
put lots of claims of events

1893
01:16:08,330 --> 01:16:06,780
uh what we want is one claim of evidence

1894
01:16:10,669 --> 01:16:08,340
and then we can examine that claim of

1895
01:16:13,370 --> 01:16:10,679
evidence so I guess your confidence

1896
01:16:15,350 --> 01:16:13,380
would be that there's so many claims of

1897
01:16:17,510 --> 01:16:15,360
evidence that there must be something to

1898
01:16:21,470 --> 01:16:17,520
it but that's kind of like they picking

1899
01:16:24,530 --> 01:16:21,480
up all the uh papers on you know the

1900
01:16:26,570 --> 01:16:24,540
Extraterrestrial citation hypothesis and

1901
01:16:28,550 --> 01:16:26,580
saying that's evidence that aliens are

1902
01:16:32,090 --> 01:16:28,560
visitors well wait wait sorry are you

1903
01:16:34,250 --> 01:16:32,100
aware that in 2014 in physical review

1904
01:16:36,530 --> 01:16:34,260
letters the optical and spectral

1905
01:16:38,870 --> 01:16:36,540
characteristics of ball lightning was

1906
01:16:41,030 --> 01:16:38,880
published verifying the existence of

1907
01:16:43,490 --> 01:16:41,040
ball lightning through Optical and

1908
01:16:45,950 --> 01:16:43,500
spectral video resolution from a remote

1909
01:16:47,630 --> 01:16:45,960
sensor system by professional scientists

1910
01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:47,640
and that has not been challenged it's

1911
01:16:52,490 --> 01:16:49,920
actually been accepted you know I'm not

1912
01:16:54,169 --> 01:16:52,500
I'm not denying bull lying I don't think

1913
01:16:57,709 --> 01:16:54,179
bull lightning is some kind of a natural

1914
01:17:00,050 --> 01:16:57,719
thing like like ghosts I think bowling

1915
01:17:01,669 --> 01:17:00,060
is a high plausible linear scientific

1916
01:17:04,330 --> 01:17:01,679
phenomena I thought that there actually

1917
01:17:07,669 --> 01:17:04,340
was evidence that it exists

1918
01:17:09,470 --> 01:17:07,679
uh but I don't know that there's good

1919
01:17:11,570 --> 01:17:09,480
evidence that it explains loads and

1920
01:17:13,850 --> 01:17:11,580
loads of UFO cases you know what's the

1921
01:17:16,729 --> 01:17:13,860
frequency of ball like how often do

1922
01:17:17,810 --> 01:17:16,739
people uh see it why we see it on all

1923
01:17:20,990 --> 01:17:17,820
these cameras

1924
01:17:22,149 --> 01:17:21,000
yeah it's uh like

1925
01:17:25,250 --> 01:17:22,159
it's it's

1926
01:17:27,709 --> 01:17:25,260
like you've been

1927
01:17:31,910 --> 01:17:27,719
convinced by the weighted evidence and

1928
01:17:33,590 --> 01:17:31,920
by specific claims evidence but uh I

1929
01:17:35,390 --> 01:17:33,600
guess it's for some reason it didn't

1930
01:17:38,330 --> 01:17:35,400
seem particularly compelling to me when

1931
01:17:40,669 --> 01:17:38,340
you you made your post but I don't know

1932
01:17:42,169 --> 01:17:40,679
maybe maybe we can do this uh offline

1933
01:17:44,330 --> 01:17:42,179
and try again

1934
01:17:52,010 --> 01:17:44,340
no that's fine no I don't honestly

1935
01:17:57,890 --> 01:17:54,709
I care about the uh I care about the

1936
01:18:00,310 --> 01:17:57,900
direction of the conversation broadly

1937
01:18:03,110 --> 01:18:00,320
and I care about the underlying

1938
01:18:04,669 --> 01:18:03,120
psychology involved for all of us myself

1939
01:18:07,010 --> 01:18:04,679
included

1940
01:18:09,290 --> 01:18:07,020
um I don't care about the UFO subject

1941
01:18:13,189 --> 01:18:09,300
itself genuinely

1942
01:18:15,410 --> 01:18:13,199
I I don't know about that

1943
01:18:17,930 --> 01:18:15,420
why are you here come on why

1944
01:18:19,610 --> 01:18:17,940
specifically are you on a UFO podcast if

1945
01:18:22,610 --> 01:18:19,620
you don't care about UFOs it's just a

1946
01:18:28,130 --> 01:18:22,620
generous because I am such a charismatic

1947
01:18:31,610 --> 01:18:30,470
I mean you'd be amazed how far I can get

1948
01:18:32,330 --> 01:18:31,620
back

1949
01:18:35,990 --> 01:18:32,340
um

1950
01:18:38,030 --> 01:18:36,000
so I'm gonna break off oh sure can I

1951
01:18:40,250 --> 01:18:38,040
just like okay just say something else

1952
01:18:43,189 --> 01:18:40,260
there I mean I I appreciate your point

1953
01:18:45,890 --> 01:18:43,199
that there are you know um

1954
01:18:48,110 --> 01:18:45,900
things in history where things have been

1955
01:18:50,689 --> 01:18:48,120
observed and scientists have rejected

1956
01:18:52,310 --> 01:18:50,699
them you know this has happened a lot

1957
01:18:54,410 --> 01:18:52,320
and one of the more recent ones is

1958
01:18:57,350 --> 01:18:54,420
meteorite that rocks falling from the

1959
01:18:59,750 --> 01:18:57,360
sky and they were something that people

1960
01:19:01,669 --> 01:18:59,760
basically said didn't didn't exist and

1961
01:19:03,830 --> 01:19:01,679
all these these tail rocks falling from

1962
01:19:05,570 --> 01:19:03,840
the sky was like folk Legends or hoaxes

1963
01:19:07,430 --> 01:19:05,580
and then you know eventually we figured

1964
01:19:10,370 --> 01:19:07,440
out that it was a real thing

1965
01:19:12,110 --> 01:19:10,380
so I mean I take the point that that you

1966
01:19:14,810 --> 01:19:12,120
know perhaps there's a new physics

1967
01:19:16,310 --> 01:19:14,820
phenomena that we haven't uh discovered

1968
01:19:18,950 --> 01:19:16,320
and perhaps we're not paying enough

1969
01:19:23,090 --> 01:19:18,960
attention to it because it seems uh

1970
01:19:25,070 --> 01:19:23,100
outrageous uh but yeah

1971
01:19:27,350 --> 01:19:25,080
yeah I just you know I can't really say

1972
01:19:31,189 --> 01:19:27,360
much more than that it hasn't really you

1973
01:19:32,270 --> 01:19:31,199
know passed my my um my radar into the

1974
01:19:34,370 --> 01:19:32,280
interesting

1975
01:19:36,770 --> 01:19:34,380
at but yeah I do understand what you're

1976
01:19:38,510 --> 01:19:36,780
saying yeah and not every weird thing

1977
01:19:40,250 --> 01:19:38,520
that someone sees is the next meteorite

1978
01:19:42,350 --> 01:19:40,260
either we have to keep that in mind I

1979
01:19:44,330 --> 01:19:42,360
know yeah a lot of Believers like to

1980
01:19:46,250 --> 01:19:44,340
bring up uh meteorites in that fashion

1981
01:19:49,070 --> 01:19:46,260
yeah and they also like to bring up like

1982
01:19:51,470 --> 01:19:49,080
the uh the three stages of uh Scientific

1983
01:19:53,450 --> 01:19:51,480
Revolution type things you know first

1984
01:19:56,689 --> 01:19:53,460
they laugh at you then they fight you

1985
01:19:58,970 --> 01:19:56,699
and then you sure uh but then the first

1986
01:20:00,410 --> 01:19:58,980
day first they left you a place to all

1987
01:20:02,990 --> 01:20:00,420
the things that are complete [\h__\h] as

1988
01:20:03,950 --> 01:20:03,000
well yeah so just because we're just

1989
01:20:05,990 --> 01:20:03,960
because people are laughing at you

1990
01:20:10,209 --> 01:20:06,000
doesn't mean you're right

1991
01:20:15,470 --> 01:20:13,490
s to ball lightning and their supposed

1992
01:20:18,229 --> 01:20:15,480
effects in official government

1993
01:20:20,330 --> 01:20:18,239
documentation where they are um kind of

1994
01:20:22,490 --> 01:20:20,340
implying certain characteristics of ball

1995
01:20:25,010 --> 01:20:22,500
lightning that aren't known to be true

1996
01:20:27,530 --> 01:20:25,020
or uh replicable in any way I mean these

1997
01:20:29,270 --> 01:20:27,540
were old these were in the 50s but

1998
01:20:30,709 --> 01:20:29,280
so yeah I mean it's out there it's an

1999
01:20:32,570 --> 01:20:30,719
interesting idea

2000
01:20:34,189 --> 01:20:32,580
um that case I've been working on I

2001
01:20:37,790 --> 01:20:34,199
think it does like Mick was saying check

2002
01:20:40,850 --> 01:20:37,800
boxes so I do like it as opposed to like

2003
01:20:43,010 --> 01:20:40,860
any situation or any uh theory that I'm

2004
01:20:45,169 --> 01:20:43,020
not coming up with but it's it's

2005
01:20:46,970 --> 01:20:45,179
something I think that was interesting I

2006
01:20:49,070 --> 01:20:46,980
until I talked to Campbell I didn't even

2007
01:20:51,350 --> 01:20:49,080
know that uh well I think had been

2008
01:20:53,209 --> 01:20:51,360
captured unfilmed and confirmed until uh

2009
01:20:55,729 --> 01:20:53,219
2014 was it

2010
01:20:58,550 --> 01:20:55,739
yeah that's right yeah so anyway I I do

2011
01:21:01,430 --> 01:20:58,560
think it's personally interesting and it

2012
01:21:02,390 --> 01:21:01,440
you know UFOs are a multitude of things

2013
01:21:04,910 --> 01:21:02,400
so

2014
01:21:11,630 --> 01:21:04,920
I think this could have uh fit a couple

2015
01:21:18,350 --> 01:21:15,110
do we have any more chat question now oh

2016
01:21:20,570 --> 01:21:18,360
fine I I have a Leah question Nick

2017
01:21:22,189 --> 01:21:20,580
um yeah so this is I'm not going to be

2018
01:21:23,750 --> 01:21:22,199
asking the technical questions I'm much

2019
01:21:26,270 --> 01:21:23,760
more concerned I think with the more

2020
01:21:27,890 --> 01:21:26,280
subjective questions this evening

2021
01:21:29,770 --> 01:21:27,900
um so one of the issues I consider when

2022
01:21:31,729 --> 01:21:29,780
engaging in this subject of ufology

2023
01:21:33,110 --> 01:21:31,739
conspiracy theory I mean [\h__\h] I'm

2024
01:21:35,390 --> 01:21:33,120
writing a book about Art Bell and Coast

2025
01:21:37,850 --> 01:21:35,400
to Coast and its impact on kind of

2026
01:21:39,890 --> 01:21:37,860
culture and media right now

2027
01:21:42,110 --> 01:21:39,900
um it is

2028
01:21:43,910 --> 01:21:42,120
um basically how these conversations and

2029
01:21:46,010 --> 01:21:43,920
engagement with this subject contribute

2030
01:21:48,169 --> 01:21:46,020
to what's effectively an epistemological

2031
01:21:49,790 --> 01:21:48,179
crisis like this unwinding of consensus

2032
01:21:51,590 --> 01:21:49,800
reality

2033
01:21:53,510 --> 01:21:51,600
um and how it's affecting and polarizing

2034
01:21:56,570 --> 01:21:53,520
not only our culture but our politics

2035
01:21:58,130 --> 01:21:56,580
and our sense of shared experience

2036
01:21:59,930 --> 01:21:58,140
um so make I'm very curious what your

2037
01:22:02,030 --> 01:21:59,940
advice would be for how to engage with

2038
01:22:03,709 --> 01:22:02,040
the subject in a good faith manner while

2039
01:22:04,910 --> 01:22:03,719
also being mindful about its

2040
01:22:07,430 --> 01:22:04,920
contribution

2041
01:22:10,669 --> 01:22:07,440
um to just like the greater cultural

2042
01:22:13,669 --> 01:22:10,679
tenor and uh polarization

2043
01:22:16,130 --> 01:22:13,679
hmm I

2044
01:22:20,090 --> 01:22:16,140
I don't personally think that there's a

2045
01:22:23,570 --> 01:22:20,100
great risk of cultural upheaval

2046
01:22:27,189 --> 01:22:23,580
um talking about it if it's not real

2047
01:22:29,870 --> 01:22:27,199
uh I think you know if aliens arrive

2048
01:22:31,970 --> 01:22:29,880
uh or that we discover even this alien

2049
01:22:33,470 --> 01:22:31,980
life on another planet that could be a

2050
01:22:35,930 --> 01:22:33,480
major disruptive thing in society

2051
01:22:37,930 --> 01:22:35,940
because it changes our perception of the

2052
01:22:41,149 --> 01:22:37,940
universe

2053
01:22:43,430 --> 01:22:41,159
speaking in a strictly literal sense I'm

2054
01:22:45,790 --> 01:22:43,440
speaking more as part of a larger

2055
01:22:47,870 --> 01:22:45,800
Pastiche of

2056
01:22:50,090 --> 01:22:47,880
narratives that are generally

2057
01:22:52,790 --> 01:22:50,100
promulgated in far-right media that

2058
01:22:55,790 --> 01:22:52,800
undermine kind of public confidence and

2059
01:22:58,370 --> 01:22:55,800
Trust in institutions okay

2060
01:23:00,649 --> 01:22:58,380
uh yeah hmm

2061
01:23:03,050 --> 01:23:00,659
it's a key one because you know I I'm a

2062
01:23:05,270 --> 01:23:03,060
skeptic so I encourage questioning and

2063
01:23:07,610 --> 01:23:05,280
asking for evidence uh which means you

2064
01:23:09,229 --> 01:23:07,620
can't blindly trust everything that

2065
01:23:10,970 --> 01:23:09,239
comes into the government you can't

2066
01:23:13,630 --> 01:23:10,980
blindly trust what the Pentagon says

2067
01:23:16,490 --> 01:23:13,640
about UFOs and you can't blindly trust

2068
01:23:18,770 --> 01:23:16,500
uh you know every single thing that the

2069
01:23:21,530 --> 01:23:18,780
government says about about

2070
01:23:25,970 --> 01:23:21,540
yeah we know that the made mistakes

2071
01:23:29,090 --> 01:23:25,980
before but I think you know we need to

2072
01:23:31,490 --> 01:23:29,100
encourage people who try to use high

2073
01:23:33,110 --> 01:23:31,500
quality instances and to use high

2074
01:23:34,729 --> 01:23:33,120
quality methodologies in making a

2075
01:23:36,410 --> 01:23:34,739
decision which obviously the average

2076
01:23:39,229 --> 01:23:36,420
person isn't going to be thinking about

2077
01:23:41,810 --> 01:23:39,239
you know what's my modology here but I

2078
01:23:43,970 --> 01:23:41,820
think there is a of getting around that

2079
01:23:45,410 --> 01:23:43,980
you know ways of encouraged people to to

2080
01:23:47,570 --> 01:23:45,420
check their sources

2081
01:23:50,689 --> 01:23:47,580
uh that

2082
01:23:52,490 --> 01:23:50,699
um you know that's necessarily mean that

2083
01:23:54,770 --> 01:23:52,500
everybody has to read academic papers

2084
01:23:58,070 --> 01:23:54,780
you know within this direct patient in

2085
01:24:00,410 --> 01:23:58,080
schools and is the uh better education I

2086
01:24:03,590 --> 01:24:00,420
think you know on on TV there needs to

2087
01:24:06,470 --> 01:24:03,600
be more YouTube channels that do do like

2088
01:24:07,669 --> 01:24:06,480
education type things uh

2089
01:24:09,229 --> 01:24:07,679
I think you know when you're talking

2090
01:24:11,330 --> 01:24:09,239
about like you know how can we have a

2091
01:24:13,729 --> 01:24:11,340
discussion

2092
01:24:15,470 --> 01:24:13,739
it's almost like we're talking about an

2093
01:24:17,390 --> 01:24:15,480
issue that only affects the the

2094
01:24:18,770 --> 01:24:17,400
chattering classes either people who

2095
01:24:20,270 --> 01:24:18,780
actually have discussions in the vast

2096
01:24:22,430 --> 01:24:20,280
majority of people you know aren't

2097
01:24:23,209 --> 01:24:22,440
really talking about these things you

2098
01:24:25,189 --> 01:24:23,219
know they aren't really having

2099
01:24:26,689 --> 01:24:25,199
discussions about things they're kind of

2100
01:24:28,310 --> 01:24:26,699
consuming content

2101
01:24:29,870 --> 01:24:28,320
you know they're watching TV or they're

2102
01:24:33,410 --> 01:24:29,880
watching machine you're uncritically

2103
01:24:35,270 --> 01:24:33,420
content consumption you know yeah so you

2104
01:24:37,189 --> 01:24:35,280
know if people are having a conversation

2105
01:24:40,070 --> 01:24:37,199
that's that's a great start but they're

2106
01:24:41,750 --> 01:24:40,080
simply uh consuming and parroting that's

2107
01:24:43,250 --> 01:24:41,760
that's something else and so that's kind

2108
01:24:45,590 --> 01:24:43,260
of where we need to look if we want to

2109
01:24:48,890 --> 01:24:45,600
look at you know oh you know harm to

2110
01:24:51,229 --> 01:24:48,900
society is being done and what the step

2111
01:24:52,669 --> 01:24:51,239
that we can take to improve that and I

2112
01:24:54,470 --> 01:24:52,679
think it's a very complicated and

2113
01:24:55,729 --> 01:24:54,480
difficult question

2114
01:24:58,250 --> 01:24:55,739
you know something that was done

2115
01:25:03,350 --> 01:24:58,260
starting around 2016.

2116
01:25:07,250 --> 01:25:03,360
was that YouTube and Google started to

2117
01:25:09,350 --> 01:25:07,260
downplay conspiracy content on site

2118
01:25:11,390 --> 01:25:09,360
they actually started library near

2119
01:25:13,250 --> 01:25:11,400
putting it lower on the search results

2120
01:25:14,930 --> 01:25:13,260
and you know eventually it's kind of

2121
01:25:18,890 --> 01:25:14,940
entirely hidden it was kind of a gradual

2122
01:25:21,770 --> 01:25:18,900
thing but now like if if you went on uh

2123
01:25:25,610 --> 01:25:21,780
on YouTube in 2015 and you searched for

2124
01:25:28,490 --> 01:25:25,620
uh Chemtrails you get loads of Trail

2125
01:25:30,950 --> 01:25:28,500
documentaries and videos of people

2126
01:25:33,110 --> 01:25:30,960
pointing at the sky and people like you

2127
01:25:35,209 --> 01:25:33,120
know do things with with tools and

2128
01:25:40,070 --> 01:25:35,219
chemtrails and things like that doing

2129
01:25:42,530 --> 01:25:40,080
now you get like a page of uh you know

2130
01:25:45,470 --> 01:25:42,540
news stories about how contrails uh how

2131
01:25:47,390 --> 01:25:45,480
about Chemtrails are nonsense and you

2132
01:25:49,669 --> 01:25:47,400
know debunking articles and you know

2133
01:25:52,070 --> 01:25:49,679
things like this you just can't find

2134
01:25:55,550 --> 01:25:52,080
that old content anymore so it's it's

2135
01:25:58,070 --> 01:25:55,560
been removed which has been a good thing

2136
01:26:00,530 --> 01:25:58,080
in one ASP in one way in that a lot more

2137
01:26:02,750 --> 01:26:00,540
people are not just kind of accidentally

2138
01:26:04,850 --> 01:26:02,760
finding a video and then watching it and

2139
01:26:07,250 --> 01:26:04,860
then falling in a rabbit hole but it's

2140
01:26:08,870 --> 01:26:07,260
also changed the dynamic considerably in

2141
01:26:12,169 --> 01:26:08,880
that it's it's pushed things underground

2142
01:26:14,930 --> 01:26:12,179
right now all the chemtrail videos are

2143
01:26:16,550 --> 01:26:14,940
on Rumble if you go to rumble and you

2144
01:26:19,550 --> 01:26:16,560
search for chemtrails you don't have any

2145
01:26:22,430 --> 01:26:19,560
debunking videos you just find like the

2146
01:26:24,649 --> 01:26:22,440
uh uh the more outrageous claims about G

2147
01:26:26,030 --> 01:26:24,659
engineering and people spraying Nanobots

2148
01:26:28,610 --> 01:26:26,040
things like that

2149
01:26:31,490 --> 01:26:28,620
uh so it's it's it's moved to a much

2150
01:26:34,910 --> 01:26:31,500
smaller plat but it's it's kind of like

2151
01:26:36,950 --> 01:26:34,920
more focused so things have changed and

2152
01:26:39,530 --> 01:26:36,960
this is something I you know I just I

2153
01:26:42,110 --> 01:26:39,540
finished the second draft of my my book

2154
01:26:46,189 --> 01:26:42,120
escaping the rabbit hole and part of the

2155
01:26:48,709 --> 01:26:46,199
update there is that constances now are

2156
01:26:51,350 --> 01:26:48,719
a lot more Dynamic than they were uh

2157
01:26:53,990 --> 01:26:51,360
five years ago like things change very

2158
01:26:55,490 --> 01:26:54,000
very rapidly like the Q a non-conspiracy

2159
01:26:58,490 --> 01:26:55,500
theory we've got something new is

2160
01:27:00,709 --> 01:26:58,500
happening every day uh the the vaccine

2161
01:27:03,050 --> 01:27:00,719
there's always new stuff coming out new

2162
01:27:05,930 --> 01:27:03,060
claims are being made about you know the

2163
01:27:07,910 --> 01:27:05,940
the vaccine contains yeah microchips or

2164
01:27:10,729 --> 01:27:07,920
the the vaccine as these these Nanobots

2165
01:27:12,590 --> 01:27:10,739
in it or more straightforward claim of

2166
01:27:14,090 --> 01:27:12,600
the vaccine just uh the spike proteins

2167
01:27:16,129 --> 01:27:14,100
are going to kill you later things like

2168
01:27:18,410 --> 01:27:16,139
that you know it's constantly evolving

2169
01:27:20,830 --> 01:27:18,420
uh it makes it very very difficult to

2170
01:27:23,510 --> 01:27:20,840
deal with so there's the major challenge

2171
01:27:24,590 --> 01:27:23,520
uh there that oh yeah I don't think

2172
01:27:28,129 --> 01:27:24,600
we've really

2173
01:27:31,550 --> 01:27:29,629
I like that you brought up the

2174
01:27:33,709 --> 01:27:31,560
Chemtrails because

2175
01:27:36,169 --> 01:27:33,719
um I find it so interesting that that is

2176
01:27:38,750 --> 01:27:36,179
if I remember correctly how you

2177
01:27:40,910 --> 01:27:38,760
um sort of made your name uh initially

2178
01:27:43,870 --> 01:27:40,920
in the debunking realm and I'd love to

2179
01:27:47,330 --> 01:27:43,880
sort of hear how you went from uh

2180
01:27:50,930 --> 01:27:47,340
retiring young and quite wealthy and

2181
01:27:53,510 --> 01:27:50,940
then got interested in even even looking

2182
01:27:55,669 --> 01:27:53,520
at uh Chemtrails and and how that got on

2183
01:27:57,770 --> 01:27:55,679
your radar and and what process you went

2184
01:27:59,990 --> 01:27:57,780
through to sort of like figure out what

2185
01:28:01,729 --> 01:28:00,000
was happening there yeah well that's

2186
01:28:02,570 --> 01:28:01,739
that's kind of interesting like

2187
01:28:04,910 --> 01:28:02,580
um

2188
01:28:06,770 --> 01:28:04,920
and my bag is I'm a computer game

2189
01:28:08,810 --> 01:28:06,780
programs you know all these this math

2190
01:28:11,149 --> 01:28:08,820
and stuff but the other thing though is

2191
01:28:14,810 --> 01:28:11,159
how to debug code

2192
01:28:16,490 --> 01:28:14,820
when you're a programmer uh a lot of the

2193
01:28:17,870 --> 01:28:16,500
time if all the time when you first

2194
01:28:19,550 --> 01:28:17,880
write code

2195
01:28:20,930 --> 01:28:19,560
it does work it doesn't do what you

2196
01:28:22,729 --> 01:28:20,940
expect it to do

2197
01:28:24,709 --> 01:28:22,739
and there's various technique you can do

2198
01:28:26,510 --> 01:28:24,719
to take the most likely but at some

2199
01:28:28,310 --> 01:28:26,520
you're going to have to debug it to

2200
01:28:30,709 --> 01:28:28,320
figure out why is it not working so

2201
01:28:32,450 --> 01:28:30,719
you've got a basically investigate

2202
01:28:34,910 --> 01:28:32,460
what going on

2203
01:28:36,169 --> 01:28:34,920
and all right remember I was you know

2204
01:28:39,050 --> 01:28:36,179
back in the video game industry

2205
01:28:40,550 --> 01:28:39,060
sometimes these bugs wouldn't happen

2206
01:28:43,310 --> 01:28:40,560
very often

2207
01:28:45,410 --> 01:28:43,320
and it was very difficult on my machines

2208
01:28:46,910 --> 01:28:45,420
like a test on me it happened and it was

2209
01:28:50,149 --> 01:28:46,920
very difficult to replicate and

2210
01:28:52,310 --> 01:28:50,159
sometimes you'd you'd be tempted to to

2211
01:28:54,050 --> 01:28:52,320
think well maybe you know he's got a

2212
01:28:56,209 --> 01:28:54,060
flaky machine or something like that or

2213
01:28:57,770 --> 01:28:56,219
maybe he's you know he's close to the

2214
01:28:59,390 --> 01:28:57,780
microwave and that's causing his machine

2215
01:29:00,770 --> 01:28:59,400
to glitch that's what's causing it he

2216
01:29:04,310 --> 01:29:00,780
starts

2217
01:29:06,290 --> 01:29:04,320
it was a magical thinking uh but yeah

2218
01:29:07,970 --> 01:29:06,300
that doesn't doesn't do you well in the

2219
01:29:09,709 --> 01:29:07,980
long run because the game still has bugs

2220
01:29:12,530 --> 01:29:09,719
in it if you just ignore them so you've

2221
01:29:14,450 --> 01:29:12,540
really got to learn the drill down to

2222
01:29:16,129 --> 01:29:14,460
the root level find the root cause of

2223
01:29:18,770 --> 01:29:16,139
exactly what's happening and fix that

2224
01:29:20,810 --> 01:29:18,780
thing and so that you know you know 20

2225
01:29:22,669 --> 01:29:20,820
years or so I was in the game that's

2226
01:29:24,950 --> 01:29:22,679
something I got very good at

2227
01:29:29,209 --> 01:29:24,960
and so when I see

2228
01:29:30,830 --> 01:29:29,219
a a an issue or a puzzle a question you

2229
01:29:33,050 --> 01:29:30,840
know my inclination is to take a deep

2230
01:29:34,370 --> 01:29:33,060
dive into that and figure out exactly

2231
01:29:38,270 --> 01:29:34,380
what's going on

2232
01:29:40,129 --> 01:29:38,280
so it's Chemtrails I saw on uh Wikipedia

2233
01:29:42,410 --> 01:29:40,139
I think I guess I'll be your article

2234
01:29:43,850 --> 01:29:42,420
about this chemtrail conspiracy theory

2235
01:29:46,610 --> 01:29:43,860
and I saw the claims that people will

2236
01:29:49,790 --> 01:29:46,620
make about you know contrails should not

2237
01:29:53,510 --> 01:29:49,800
percept and things like that and so my

2238
01:29:55,310 --> 01:29:53,520
inclination was to just go in and figure

2239
01:29:57,590 --> 01:29:55,320
out exactly what they were saying and

2240
01:30:00,110 --> 01:29:57,600
exactly what the science should have

2241
01:30:01,729 --> 01:30:00,120
been with this with with contrails and

2242
01:30:04,850 --> 01:30:01,739
so I started a website called contrail

2243
01:30:07,729 --> 01:30:04,860
science explaining that science uh and

2244
01:30:09,830 --> 01:30:07,739
yeah I I enjoyed doing it I enjoyed

2245
01:30:13,430 --> 01:30:09,840
figuring stuff out

2246
01:30:15,709 --> 01:30:13,440
I'm getting an echo here from somebody

2247
01:30:18,410 --> 01:30:15,719
is anybody else

2248
01:30:20,209 --> 01:30:18,420
oh I think it's gone

2249
01:30:22,970 --> 01:30:20,219
okay yeah I heard a little Echo too it's

2250
01:30:28,790 --> 01:30:26,149
but yeah so uh that's you know kind of

2251
01:30:33,830 --> 01:30:28,800
puzzle solver type thing from contrails

2252
01:30:38,030 --> 01:30:33,840
translated very naturally over to uh UFO

2253
01:30:41,390 --> 01:30:38,040
and uh I I would you know use my

2254
01:30:42,709 --> 01:30:41,400
debugging skills debunking but it's the

2255
01:30:45,169 --> 01:30:42,719
same type of thing you would have you

2256
01:30:46,610 --> 01:30:45,179
went to investigate uh some weird thing

2257
01:30:50,270 --> 01:30:46,620
that is happening and try to figure out

2258
01:30:52,490 --> 01:30:50,280
exactly what caused it and some of the

2259
01:30:55,250 --> 01:30:52,500
stuff I do is almost identical to what I

2260
01:30:57,470 --> 01:30:55,260
was doing in the Tony Hawk skateboarding

2261
01:30:59,390 --> 01:30:57,480
games yeah sometimes you'd be skating

2262
01:31:03,350 --> 01:30:59,400
along in Tony Hawk and you'd fly through

2263
01:31:05,629 --> 01:31:03,360
a wall so I have to you know kind of uh

2264
01:31:07,310 --> 01:31:05,639
do a 3D view of his what was going on

2265
01:31:09,350 --> 01:31:07,320
where are the Vetters and where are the

2266
01:31:11,750 --> 01:31:09,360
little vision tests and you know what

2267
01:31:13,550 --> 01:31:11,760
polygon are touching and I just the same

2268
01:31:15,050 --> 01:31:13,560
type of thing with UFOs I built new

2269
01:31:16,729 --> 01:31:15,060
models and I fly around them and I look

2270
01:31:18,290 --> 01:31:16,739
at them I see what's going on in this

2271
01:31:20,810 --> 01:31:18,300
particular location it's the same type

2272
01:31:23,570 --> 01:31:20,820
of thing so uh you know that's that's

2273
01:31:26,090 --> 01:31:23,580
kind of grounding in video game

2274
01:31:34,250 --> 01:31:26,100
programming was directly run to the the

2275
01:31:42,790 --> 01:31:37,189
excellent I I think that uh your your

2276
01:31:47,390 --> 01:31:42,800
video showing that the gimbal is

2277
01:31:51,850 --> 01:31:47,400
capable fully of being a

2278
01:31:55,490 --> 01:31:51,860
generic object has really changed the

2279
01:31:56,990 --> 01:31:55,500
conversation fundamentally around UFOs

2280
01:31:59,229 --> 01:31:57,000
because that has always been so

2281
01:32:02,390 --> 01:31:59,239
centralized and

2282
01:32:04,129 --> 01:32:02,400
have you noticed that uh consequence in

2283
01:32:06,110 --> 01:32:04,139
the the broader Community yourself

2284
01:32:08,030 --> 01:32:06,120
what's

2285
01:32:09,530 --> 01:32:08,040
been your experience with creating and

2286
01:32:11,510 --> 01:32:09,540
like putting that out there it's because

2287
01:32:13,850 --> 01:32:11,520
it's been so Monumental uh to see from

2288
01:32:16,430 --> 01:32:13,860
the outside yeah I think it's hard to

2289
01:32:19,490 --> 01:32:16,440
judge uh the impact of something like

2290
01:32:22,510 --> 01:32:19,500
that on the community as a whole but I

2291
01:32:26,209 --> 01:32:22,520
I've certainly seen individual people

2292
01:32:29,169 --> 01:32:26,219
tell me that either that video or other

2293
01:32:31,850 --> 01:32:29,179
videos like it has been kind of pivotal

2294
01:32:33,350 --> 01:32:31,860
in changing their perception of the

2295
01:32:37,090 --> 01:32:33,360
whole UFO

2296
01:32:40,490 --> 01:32:37,100
um yeah scene phenomena situation

2297
01:32:42,830 --> 01:32:40,500
and that's you know it's a when you see

2298
01:32:46,669 --> 01:32:42,840
that you know some evidence that was put

2299
01:32:49,850 --> 01:32:46,679
forward as being anomalous doesn't have

2300
01:32:52,430 --> 01:32:49,860
the uh you know the the what people said

2301
01:32:55,189 --> 01:32:52,440
it had it makes you think

2302
01:32:57,169 --> 01:32:55,199
and it evens with several different

2303
01:32:59,330 --> 01:32:57,179
things it makes you think even more and

2304
01:33:02,330 --> 01:32:59,340
eventually people are going to be well

2305
01:33:04,430 --> 01:33:02,340
you know there's there's uh no smoke

2306
01:33:06,050 --> 01:33:04,440
without fire but there uh there isn't

2307
01:33:07,850 --> 01:33:06,060
really any smoke here so you know what's

2308
01:33:09,410 --> 01:33:07,860
actually going on what am I what am I

2309
01:33:11,510 --> 01:33:09,420
actually believing in

2310
01:33:14,209 --> 01:33:11,520
you know these these classic kisses if

2311
01:33:16,490 --> 01:33:14,219
they all fall away you're not left with

2312
01:33:18,050 --> 01:33:16,500
with much more than the the old kind of

2313
01:33:20,990 --> 01:33:18,060
you know verbal accounts and the very

2314
01:33:23,030 --> 01:33:21,000
old photo videos which weren't very

2315
01:33:26,209 --> 01:33:23,040
convincing to start off with supposedly

2316
01:33:28,669 --> 01:33:26,219
we were in a new age of UF audio and

2317
01:33:31,070 --> 01:33:28,679
starting these these videos from the

2318
01:33:34,729 --> 01:33:31,080
name but if the videos may be really

2319
01:33:37,370 --> 01:33:34,739
weren't amazing then you know has have

2320
01:33:39,050 --> 01:33:37,380
things really changed other than the

2321
01:33:41,510 --> 01:33:39,060
fact that now we're talking about it a

2322
01:33:44,390 --> 01:33:41,520
lot more as the actual evidentiary best

2323
01:33:47,629 --> 01:33:44,400
for the situation actually changed I've

2324
01:33:49,490 --> 01:33:47,639
had a lot of people tell me uh that

2325
01:33:51,649 --> 01:33:49,500
that's that's what happened

2326
01:33:54,830 --> 01:33:51,659
you know perhaps it has had a broader

2327
01:33:57,229 --> 01:33:54,840
impact I mean there's some some people

2328
01:33:59,689 --> 01:33:57,239
you you've seen in the community who

2329
01:34:00,410 --> 01:33:59,699
have changed their position on UFOs I

2330
01:34:02,510 --> 01:34:00,420
mean

2331
01:34:03,709 --> 01:34:02,520
perhaps partly from my stuff but you

2332
01:34:06,229 --> 01:34:03,719
know from other things as well like

2333
01:34:07,729 --> 01:34:06,239
Stephen Green Street used to be a big

2334
01:34:09,830 --> 01:34:07,739
UFO guy

2335
01:34:11,930 --> 01:34:09,840
very Pro Louis Alexander and you know

2336
01:34:13,850 --> 01:34:11,940
now he's not a big UFO guy and he's

2337
01:34:18,410 --> 01:34:13,860
Auntie Lua under

2338
01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:18,420
uh Lewis Jimenez from the the CR and

2339
01:34:20,570 --> 01:34:19,850
rather and people

2340
01:34:22,970 --> 01:34:20,580
[Music]

2341
01:34:27,290 --> 01:34:25,790
um they you know there are there are a

2342
01:34:29,750 --> 01:34:27,300
bunch of reasonably high profile people

2343
01:34:31,729 --> 01:34:29,760
I've spoken to people uh offline who

2344
01:34:33,590 --> 01:34:31,739
have collected me and they said yeah I

2345
01:34:36,410 --> 01:34:33,600
was like you know real hardcore into

2346
01:34:39,590 --> 01:34:36,420
this yeah or and you know I was a big

2347
01:34:42,410 --> 01:34:39,600
supporter of the the invisible College

2348
01:34:45,290 --> 01:34:42,420
people you know zondo and valet and

2349
01:34:47,629 --> 01:34:45,300
people like that uh and

2350
01:34:49,189 --> 01:34:47,639
they've become disillusioned

2351
01:34:50,810 --> 01:34:49,199
which you know sounds like that thing

2352
01:34:53,110 --> 01:34:50,820
but if you're disillusioned of something

2353
01:34:57,350 --> 01:34:53,120
that's in truth and that's a good thing

2354
01:35:00,470 --> 01:34:57,360
uh so yeah things

2355
01:35:03,110 --> 01:35:00,480
have changed but then also way more

2356
01:35:06,649 --> 01:35:03,120
people now believe the UEFA aliens they

2357
01:35:10,430 --> 01:35:06,659
did before the New York Times so things

2358
01:35:12,830 --> 01:35:10,440
of interesting individuals but for the

2359
01:35:15,350 --> 01:35:12,840
broader population I think you know UFOs

2360
01:35:17,090 --> 01:35:15,360
are more in the in the in the

2361
01:35:19,129 --> 01:35:17,100
in the Forefront of their mind their

2362
01:35:27,660 --> 01:35:19,139
beliefs than they were before

2363
01:35:33,169 --> 01:35:29,229
[Music]

2364
01:35:36,530 --> 01:35:33,179
have you been shaped by any particular

2365
01:35:38,810 --> 01:35:36,540
thinkers or books or experiences or

2366
01:35:40,970 --> 01:35:38,820
anything like that

2367
01:35:43,790 --> 01:35:40,980
uh any sort of like theoretical

2368
01:35:45,890 --> 01:35:43,800
Frameworks that inform your approach to

2369
01:35:47,990 --> 01:35:45,900
things

2370
01:35:51,770 --> 01:35:48,000
well when I was young I read Richard

2371
01:35:55,910 --> 01:35:51,780
Dawkins books uh on not not the religion

2372
01:35:58,070 --> 01:35:55,920
books the uh even books yeah the blind

2373
01:36:00,950 --> 01:35:58,080
wall breaker

2374
01:36:03,590 --> 01:36:00,960
uh which you know were very interesting

2375
01:36:05,810 --> 01:36:03,600
to me very uh

2376
01:36:07,790 --> 01:36:05,820
you know it really tells you how

2377
01:36:10,370 --> 01:36:07,800
Evolution works and how it can work

2378
01:36:11,810 --> 01:36:10,380
gradual Evolution can lead to to complex

2379
01:36:14,629 --> 01:36:11,820
situations

2380
01:36:17,390 --> 01:36:14,639
and it gave me some like very simple

2381
01:36:19,430 --> 01:36:17,400
basic steps that I think about to this

2382
01:36:21,350 --> 01:36:19,440
day like there's there's one called uh

2383
01:36:22,790 --> 01:36:21,360
end space

2384
01:36:24,770 --> 01:36:22,800
I'm not sure if that's what he called it

2385
01:36:26,330 --> 01:36:24,780
exactly but it's basically like you know

2386
01:36:28,310 --> 01:36:26,340
we have normal

2387
01:36:29,950 --> 01:36:28,320
three-dimensional space and you know

2388
01:36:32,810 --> 01:36:29,960
that we have

2389
01:36:35,689 --> 01:36:32,820
uh three ways you can go and you can

2390
01:36:40,729 --> 01:36:35,699
arrange things uh say I say height

2391
01:36:42,890 --> 01:36:40,739
weight uh and color uh like three axes

2392
01:36:45,050 --> 01:36:42,900
then you can add like another axis in

2393
01:36:46,790 --> 01:36:45,060
the fourth dimension which uh is like

2394
01:36:48,110 --> 01:36:46,800
you know number of legs or you know

2395
01:36:50,870 --> 01:36:48,120
something else which is like bone

2396
01:36:52,850 --> 01:36:50,880
density and like you add loads and loads

2397
01:36:54,470 --> 01:36:52,860
and loads of different uh dimensions and

2398
01:36:56,270 --> 01:36:54,480
you get this complicated space a

2399
01:36:59,030 --> 01:36:56,280
multi-dimensional space

2400
01:37:02,270 --> 01:36:59,040
and any particular animal can be

2401
01:37:04,010 --> 01:37:02,280
expressed as simply a point space

2402
01:37:05,930 --> 01:37:04,020
uh because it's just a set of numbers

2403
01:37:08,390 --> 01:37:05,940
it's got like these different galaxies

2404
01:37:11,030 --> 01:37:08,400
is one now that makes up this animal you

2405
01:37:14,030 --> 01:37:11,040
could it could even be like each other's

2406
01:37:16,310 --> 01:37:14,040
position on the code and something like

2407
01:37:17,510 --> 01:37:16,320
that but you can you can Define it as a

2408
01:37:19,850 --> 01:37:17,520
point in space and then another animal

2409
01:37:22,729 --> 01:37:19,860
is a different uh point in place

2410
01:37:25,129 --> 01:37:22,739
and between those two animals you'd

2411
01:37:27,050 --> 01:37:25,139
actually just draw a straight line

2412
01:37:30,110 --> 01:37:27,060
and between those two things there will

2413
01:37:33,229 --> 01:37:30,120
be the smooth Continuum of intermediate

2414
01:37:35,570 --> 01:37:33,239
forms that are these different nimballs

2415
01:37:37,070 --> 01:37:35,580
and you know maybe sounds like kind of

2416
01:37:38,810 --> 01:37:37,080
obvious but when I first heard that it

2417
01:37:39,890 --> 01:37:38,820
kind of my mind and it just made me

2418
01:37:41,450 --> 01:37:39,900
think about

2419
01:37:45,590 --> 01:37:41,460
the

2420
01:37:48,070 --> 01:37:45,600
different

2421
01:37:50,229 --> 01:37:48,080
problems and situations is this

2422
01:37:53,930 --> 01:37:50,239
multi-dimensional thing

2423
01:37:55,490 --> 01:37:53,940
you can you can you can define a set of

2424
01:37:56,990 --> 01:37:55,500
possible things and it's got these

2425
01:37:58,310 --> 01:37:57,000
different XCS and then there's points in

2426
01:38:00,590 --> 01:37:58,320
it and then you can move between these

2427
01:38:02,510 --> 01:38:00,600
these points uh and it just it gives you

2428
01:38:03,830 --> 01:38:02,520
an interesting way of thinking about uh

2429
01:38:06,110 --> 01:38:03,840
about about

2430
01:38:08,450 --> 01:38:06,120
certain types of problems

2431
01:38:09,910 --> 01:38:08,460
and I also read a bunch of uh Richard

2432
01:38:15,290 --> 01:38:09,920
Feynman

2433
01:38:17,930 --> 01:38:15,300
you're joking yeah he was great

2434
01:38:20,270 --> 01:38:17,940
yeah yes surely even joking Mr fine man

2435
01:38:23,810 --> 01:38:20,280
yeah it's that's I think something when

2436
01:38:26,750 --> 01:38:23,820
the teach said to him once but he you

2437
01:38:30,950 --> 01:38:26,760
know he's uh is not very PC by modern

2438
01:38:34,070 --> 01:38:30,960
standards but uh he he's uh

2439
01:38:35,570 --> 01:38:34,080
very good at understanding the world and

2440
01:38:37,490 --> 01:38:35,580
very good at solving problems and he's

2441
01:38:40,550 --> 01:38:37,500
very good at communicating he's got him

2442
01:38:42,110 --> 01:38:40,560
a series of lectures and physics uh

2443
01:38:44,209 --> 01:38:42,120
which uh oh yeah his physics lectures

2444
01:38:46,430 --> 01:38:44,219
are amazing for anyone interested in

2445
01:38:48,229 --> 01:38:46,440
physics totally worth listening to and

2446
01:38:49,669 --> 01:38:48,239
there's a classic clip of him which

2447
01:38:51,530 --> 01:38:49,679
which I always I always think about

2448
01:38:55,250 --> 01:38:51,540
where he's explaining where he's not

2449
01:38:58,010 --> 01:38:55,260
explaining because he asked by uh the

2450
01:39:00,310 --> 01:38:58,020
interviewer how to explain magnet

2451
01:39:03,410 --> 01:39:00,320
and magnvest how do they work

2452
01:39:06,410 --> 01:39:03,420
and and by massage and well what do you

2453
01:39:08,689 --> 01:39:06,420
mean they work and then the interview is

2454
01:39:10,430 --> 01:39:08,699
like yes so as well why are they pulling

2455
01:39:12,590 --> 01:39:10,440
each other together finally says well

2456
01:39:14,270 --> 01:39:12,600
they're attracted to each other

2457
01:39:15,950 --> 01:39:14,280
because there's a force that pulls one

2458
01:39:16,850 --> 01:39:15,960
to another and then it's the wire the

2459
01:39:19,310 --> 01:39:16,860
force

2460
01:39:21,950 --> 01:39:19,320
and fireman goes on on this this long

2461
01:39:23,990 --> 01:39:21,960
spiel about like you know I suppose you

2462
01:39:25,910 --> 01:39:24,000
see old lady fought over and you know

2463
01:39:27,470 --> 01:39:25,920
you ask like why'd you fall over and you

2464
01:39:31,070 --> 01:39:27,480
know she pick a hip

2465
01:39:33,410 --> 01:39:31,080
because yeah she slipped yes on the ace

2466
01:39:35,750 --> 01:39:33,420
because uh low friction yeah it's why is

2467
01:39:37,310 --> 01:39:35,760
the low friction it's because of the the

2468
01:39:38,330 --> 01:39:37,320
interaction of the molecules and you

2469
01:39:40,430 --> 01:39:38,340
know why why does that cause low

2470
01:39:43,490 --> 01:39:40,440
friction and you know what how do you

2471
01:39:45,649 --> 01:39:43,500
explain the weak atomics you go down it

2472
01:39:47,750 --> 01:39:45,659
gets down to something but definitely

2473
01:39:50,149 --> 01:39:47,760
you can't explain

2474
01:39:52,010 --> 01:39:50,159
there's always going to be kind of a a

2475
01:39:55,729 --> 01:39:52,020
substrate to a

2476
01:39:58,209 --> 01:39:55,739
explanation that you have to say you

2477
01:40:00,770 --> 01:39:58,219
don't know

2478
01:40:03,590 --> 01:40:00,780
in a way you know Feynman doesn't know

2479
01:40:06,290 --> 01:40:03,600
exactly why magnets work he knows that

2480
01:40:09,290 --> 01:40:06,300
subatomic particles uh work in a certain

2481
01:40:11,450 --> 01:40:09,300
way and he knows that forces interact in

2482
01:40:13,850 --> 01:40:11,460
a certain way and it can inscribe an

2483
01:40:15,229 --> 01:40:13,860
explanation in those terms but he

2484
01:40:17,810 --> 01:40:15,239
doesn't know what's beneath that he

2485
01:40:20,330 --> 01:40:17,820
doesn't why these these fundamental

2486
01:40:22,850 --> 01:40:20,340
forces of the universe do what they do

2487
01:40:25,250 --> 01:40:22,860
and then that to me was like a

2488
01:40:27,649 --> 01:40:25,260
foundational point in my kind of

2489
01:40:30,050 --> 01:40:27,659
education is that

2490
01:40:32,090 --> 01:40:30,060
when you're figuring something out and

2491
01:40:34,970 --> 01:40:32,100
explaining it to people

2492
01:40:37,490 --> 01:40:34,980
uh you can only communicate you know

2493
01:40:39,050 --> 01:40:37,500
first of all you can only communicate at

2494
01:40:40,669 --> 01:40:39,060
their level so they can understand it

2495
01:40:42,110 --> 01:40:40,679
and then there's also limits to what you

2496
01:40:45,169 --> 01:40:42,120
can actually communicate because the

2497
01:40:47,510 --> 01:40:45,179
limits to what you understand below that

2498
01:40:49,189 --> 01:40:47,520
there's going to be limits that get past

2499
01:40:51,830 --> 01:40:49,199
because no one understands exactly how

2500
01:40:53,629 --> 01:40:51,840
the universe works mm-hmm

2501
01:40:56,030 --> 01:40:53,639
right

2502
01:40:58,729 --> 01:40:56,040
we have a we have a great question from

2503
01:41:00,470 --> 01:40:58,739
Steve long as well which is semi-related

2504
01:41:03,229 --> 01:41:00,480
to this inquiry

2505
01:41:06,530 --> 01:41:03,239
um he's asking what works uh or

2506
01:41:08,750 --> 01:41:06,540
recommendations you have that you feel

2507
01:41:11,930 --> 01:41:08,760
are important for anyone beginning to

2508
01:41:14,570 --> 01:41:11,940
assess new information zones so

2509
01:41:16,189 --> 01:41:14,580
specifically UFOs where does someone

2510
01:41:19,550 --> 01:41:16,199
who's interested in this subject where

2511
01:41:27,410 --> 01:41:22,490
ah it's kind of a tricky question I mean

2512
01:41:30,590 --> 01:41:27,420
I got it at a bunk.com no I wouldn't uh

2513
01:41:32,930 --> 01:41:30,600
I mean the someone mentioned

2514
01:41:35,629 --> 01:41:32,940
um Alan Henry I think uh and he has a

2515
01:41:37,970 --> 01:41:35,639
great book called

2516
01:41:39,770 --> 01:41:37,980
and you know oh my God I haven't seen

2517
01:41:41,450 --> 01:41:39,780
that book in forever I have that book

2518
01:41:43,250 --> 01:41:41,460
it's an older book it's an older book

2519
01:41:47,330 --> 01:41:43,260
yeah like from the 17th I believe or the

2520
01:41:50,570 --> 01:41:47,340
80s uh but yes it's a good book and

2521
01:41:51,770 --> 01:41:50,580
you know I I don't think it's probably

2522
01:41:53,149 --> 01:41:51,780
it's probably not the best book that's

2523
01:41:56,209 --> 01:41:53,159
pretty better books but I haven't really

2524
01:41:58,550 --> 01:41:56,219
read that many books but I would start a

2525
01:42:00,169 --> 01:41:58,560
book a lot of this yeah if you can find

2526
01:42:02,450 --> 01:42:00,179
a book like this then ask someone else

2527
01:42:04,070 --> 01:42:02,460
who's a fan of Euros who's read books

2528
01:42:06,590 --> 01:42:04,080
like what's a good book that you know

2529
01:42:09,530 --> 01:42:06,600
gives a a reasonable explanation of

2530
01:42:11,330 --> 01:42:09,540
where we're at with with UFOs

2531
01:42:13,149 --> 01:42:11,340
um I think somebody met a book they are

2532
01:42:16,189 --> 01:42:13,159
already here

2533
01:42:18,530 --> 01:42:16,199
uh uh this this a bunch of different

2534
01:42:20,030 --> 01:42:18,540
takes on on ufology as well the more

2535
01:42:22,790 --> 01:42:20,040
Nuts and Bolts

2536
01:42:25,490 --> 01:42:22,800
uh takes there's the the sociological

2537
01:42:30,229 --> 01:42:25,500
takes there's a kind of the the

2538
01:42:32,870 --> 01:42:30,239
spiritual takes and the uh the uh I

2539
01:42:35,810 --> 01:42:32,880
guess the the ones that are morphed on

2540
01:42:38,149 --> 01:42:35,820
yeah believing yeah there's lots of lots

2541
01:42:42,590 --> 01:42:38,159
of books that are written from a basis

2542
01:42:43,250 --> 01:42:42,600
of of belief if you're a skeptic

2543
01:42:45,229 --> 01:42:43,260
um

2544
01:42:48,830 --> 01:42:45,239
yeah like I say this the book would

2545
01:42:51,229 --> 01:42:48,840
recommend but it's it 50 years old so

2546
01:42:52,910 --> 01:42:51,239
there must be a better book and I invite

2547
01:42:53,610 --> 01:42:52,920
other people let me know what that book

2548
01:42:56,090 --> 01:42:53,620
is

2549
01:42:57,470 --> 01:42:56,100
[Music]

2550
01:42:59,450 --> 01:42:57,480
great thank you you should write it

2551
01:43:02,990 --> 01:42:59,460
maybe I should write a book

2552
01:43:05,109 --> 01:43:03,000
on you vote you should and then you can

2553
01:43:08,570 --> 01:43:05,119
come back on the podcast

2554
01:43:09,770 --> 01:43:08,580
well in two years time that's fine we'll

2555
01:43:11,810 --> 01:43:09,780
still be doing this every Wednesday

2556
01:43:14,750 --> 01:43:11,820
night man

2557
01:43:16,850 --> 01:43:14,760
I think that um getting into it I think

2558
01:43:19,490 --> 01:43:16,860
they're a really important thing to uh

2559
01:43:20,990 --> 01:43:19,500
to keep in mind is that standards of

2560
01:43:23,209 --> 01:43:21,000
evidence are very important I mean do

2561
01:43:25,550 --> 01:43:23,219
you have like your own version of

2562
01:43:26,689 --> 01:43:25,560
Sagan's baloney detection kit or like

2563
01:43:29,090 --> 01:43:26,699
how do you

2564
01:43:31,010 --> 01:43:29,100
um I I don't so it's interesting like I

2565
01:43:32,450 --> 01:43:31,020
know there are the bunch of

2566
01:43:34,790 --> 01:43:32,460
um you know I have

2567
01:43:37,430 --> 01:43:34,800
I have Sagan's my bookshelf over there

2568
01:43:39,830 --> 01:43:37,440
so I don't know where it is but I I I

2569
01:43:42,609 --> 01:43:39,840
know that there are these formal ways

2570
01:43:47,209 --> 01:43:42,619
that people have of assessing evidence

2571
01:43:48,649 --> 01:43:47,219
and uh yeah I'm I don't do that and yeah

2572
01:43:51,590 --> 01:43:48,659
I have a website called Cowboy

2573
01:43:54,649 --> 01:43:51,600
programming cowboyprogramming.com

2574
01:43:57,530 --> 01:43:54,659
which is my old yeah programming website

2575
01:44:02,510 --> 01:43:57,540
and it's called Cowboy program because I

2576
01:44:05,629 --> 01:44:02,520
I utilize an ad hoc approach to uh to

2577
01:44:07,669 --> 01:44:05,639
programming and uh you know because I'm

2578
01:44:10,430 --> 01:44:07,679
you know kind of largely self-taught

2579
01:44:13,070 --> 01:44:10,440
uh even though I read a lot but yeah I I

2580
01:44:14,990 --> 01:44:13,080
don't I'm not a big fan of one

2581
01:44:16,189 --> 01:44:15,000
methodology like it's the solving

2582
01:44:19,129 --> 01:44:16,199
problem

2583
01:44:22,070 --> 01:44:19,139
and you know maybe I should be I do have

2584
01:44:24,970 --> 01:44:22,080
one book that I like let me just grab it

2585
01:44:31,850 --> 01:44:28,729
which is this book here it is uh solve

2586
01:44:33,530 --> 01:44:31,860
it by G polia another old book it's a

2587
01:44:36,109 --> 01:44:33,540
very old book it used to belong to my

2588
01:44:38,930 --> 01:44:36,119
grandfather of this book it's uh it's

2589
01:44:41,629 --> 01:44:38,940
still got the it was 13 Shillings as the

2590
01:44:44,570 --> 01:44:41,639
price on the front of the book well but

2591
01:44:46,850 --> 01:44:44,580
what is it's a book that's it's it is

2592
01:44:48,890 --> 01:44:46,860
out a a methodology for solving

2593
01:44:51,169 --> 01:44:48,900
mathematical problems and the reason I

2594
01:44:52,850 --> 01:44:51,179
like it is that it's really short not

2595
01:44:55,729 --> 01:44:52,860
just the book itself is really short but

2596
01:44:57,770 --> 01:44:55,739
the methodology uh is just basically

2597
01:44:59,750 --> 01:44:57,780
this two-page

2598
01:45:02,270 --> 01:44:59,760
two pages yeah

2599
01:45:05,870 --> 01:45:02,280
and it's just to list things too

2600
01:45:08,450 --> 01:45:05,880
and this thing is uh you know Define the

2601
01:45:10,609 --> 01:45:08,460
unknown and draw a diagram

2602
01:45:12,229 --> 01:45:10,619
uh which is just you know such wonderful

2603
01:45:13,910 --> 01:45:12,239
advice draw a diagram

2604
01:45:16,490 --> 01:45:13,920
so I started getting any UFO

2605
01:45:17,870 --> 01:45:16,500
investigator draw a diagram I didn't why

2606
01:45:20,030 --> 01:45:17,880
didn't fryver draw a diagram anyway

2607
01:45:22,250 --> 01:45:20,040
aside then the second thing is like have

2608
01:45:29,930 --> 01:45:22,260
you seen this before

2609
01:45:32,510 --> 01:45:29,940
like 80 cents of what I do people will

2610
01:45:35,510 --> 01:45:32,520
show me something and I've seen it

2611
01:45:37,250 --> 01:45:35,520
before I know what it is

2612
01:45:38,750 --> 01:45:37,260
so that's something that's you can't

2613
01:45:41,750 --> 01:45:38,760
really eat that

2614
01:45:43,669 --> 01:45:41,760
as the method to a new UFO investigator

2615
01:45:47,270 --> 01:45:43,679
if they haven't already solved a whole

2616
01:45:48,410 --> 01:45:47,280
bunch of UFO cases uh so you could you

2617
01:45:49,910 --> 01:45:48,420
could teach them a bunch of things you

2618
01:45:52,609 --> 01:45:49,920
got like lists of things but they really

2619
01:45:55,189 --> 01:45:52,619
make sense who are already experienced

2620
01:45:56,689 --> 01:45:55,199
uh in the art so it's it's kind of a

2621
01:45:58,970 --> 01:45:56,699
Chicken and the Egg thing you're

2622
01:46:00,649 --> 01:45:58,980
teaching people methodology

2623
01:46:07,729 --> 01:46:00,659
uh

2624
01:46:10,669 --> 01:46:07,739
of it how to solve it for computer

2625
01:46:13,250 --> 01:46:10,679
programming but it's

2626
01:46:15,470 --> 01:46:13,260
yeah that's what I do I look at problems

2627
01:46:18,229 --> 01:46:15,480
interface all step-by-step way

2628
01:46:19,550 --> 01:46:18,239
and if I've seen it before I apply it

2629
01:46:21,770 --> 01:46:19,560
you you break down a problem into

2630
01:46:23,930 --> 01:46:21,780
smaller chunks one of the things it

2631
01:46:27,709 --> 01:46:23,940
tells you it's like a five-step process

2632
01:46:30,530 --> 01:46:27,719
literally anyway this is rambling

2633
01:46:31,910 --> 01:46:30,540
that's fine yeah we're on a podcast here

2634
01:46:35,810 --> 01:46:31,920
that's uh pretty much our bread and

2635
01:46:40,010 --> 01:46:38,450
when you're at the top of the hour right

2636
01:46:43,669 --> 01:46:40,020
did we have any more

2637
01:46:47,090 --> 01:46:45,590
um I I don't but I do have one final

2638
01:46:49,070 --> 01:46:47,100
question

2639
01:46:51,169 --> 01:46:49,080
um again more driven by personal

2640
01:46:52,729 --> 01:46:51,179
curiosity than anything

2641
01:46:55,609 --> 01:46:52,739
um are there any cases events or

2642
01:46:58,430 --> 01:46:55,619
phenomena that you keep coming back to

2643
01:47:00,590 --> 01:46:58,440
um in terms of things that you think are

2644
01:47:04,129 --> 01:47:00,600
genuinely mysterious or Captivate your

2645
01:47:08,470 --> 01:47:04,139
attention kind of Beyond I would say

2646
01:47:16,790 --> 01:47:12,410
not for those reasons uh there are cases

2647
01:47:20,870 --> 01:47:16,800
that I keep back to uh but uh not really

2648
01:47:23,570 --> 01:47:20,880
because there are weird and inexplicable

2649
01:47:25,430 --> 01:47:23,580
you know the the cases that you can't

2650
01:47:26,990 --> 01:47:25,440
really solve or the one you don't really

2651
01:47:29,270 --> 01:47:27,000
have enough information

2652
01:47:32,570 --> 01:47:29,280
and you're probably not going to be able

2653
01:47:35,270 --> 01:47:32,580
to get very far with them but there are

2654
01:47:37,430 --> 01:47:35,280
other pictures uh where I think we've

2655
01:47:39,770 --> 01:47:37,440
nearly got enough information or perhaps

2656
01:47:42,169 --> 01:47:39,780
we even do have enough information it's

2657
01:47:44,090 --> 01:47:42,179
some kind of determination

2658
01:47:46,129 --> 01:47:44,100
but

2659
01:47:49,490 --> 01:47:46,139
even though I feel like you know I

2660
01:47:52,010 --> 01:47:49,500
perhaps have biggest thing out

2661
01:47:55,370 --> 01:47:52,020
um people don't accept it

2662
01:47:57,109 --> 01:47:55,380
and what really gets me what motivates

2663
01:47:59,750 --> 01:47:57,119
me is

2664
01:48:01,970 --> 01:47:59,760
trying to communicate those cases to

2665
01:48:06,109 --> 01:48:01,980
people trying to explain to people like

2666
01:48:08,810 --> 01:48:06,119
why this is the way it is now the gimbal

2667
01:48:11,570 --> 01:48:08,820
case is a good example

2668
01:48:13,669 --> 01:48:11,580
um I I wrote this quite complicated

2669
01:48:15,709 --> 01:48:13,679
piece of software that you see in this

2670
01:48:17,510 --> 01:48:15,719
this video explains it of all the

2671
01:48:20,629 --> 01:48:17,520
patients and everything and I do this

2672
01:48:22,669 --> 01:48:20,639
long blaming it and the reason that came

2673
01:48:27,050 --> 01:48:22,679
about is because of you know the guy who

2674
01:48:29,750 --> 01:48:27,060
I asked the first question Marek VR

2675
01:48:33,470 --> 01:48:29,760
um it was kind of challenging me

2676
01:48:35,810 --> 01:48:33,480
um uh my explanation well you know I I

2677
01:48:38,090 --> 01:48:35,820
these videos where I had these long

2678
01:48:39,530 --> 01:48:38,100
sticks I'd just model with a stick and a

2679
01:48:41,090 --> 01:48:39,540
hinge you know you never show you know

2680
01:48:42,350 --> 01:48:41,100
we take it from left to right it rotates

2681
01:48:46,129 --> 01:48:42,360
like this

2682
01:48:48,830 --> 01:48:46,139
and that that Illustrated the general

2683
01:48:50,629 --> 01:48:48,840
concert people didn't really get it and

2684
01:48:52,310 --> 01:48:50,639
they didn't they didn't it didn't really

2685
01:48:54,350 --> 01:48:52,320
like answer exactly what was going on

2686
01:48:56,750 --> 01:48:54,360
and you didn't really prove it in any

2687
01:48:58,250 --> 01:48:56,760
kind of mathematical way and so I think

2688
01:49:01,850 --> 01:48:58,260
Marek was asking some questions about

2689
01:49:04,490 --> 01:49:01,860
and I said well I I really need to do is

2690
01:49:08,149 --> 01:49:04,500
write a a simulation of the entire

2691
01:49:10,310 --> 01:49:08,159
situation and uh that that should share

2692
01:49:12,950 --> 01:49:10,320
it and so I started doing that and I

2693
01:49:15,109 --> 01:49:12,960
spent I don't know months you know

2694
01:49:17,149 --> 01:49:15,119
part-time doing it and came up with this

2695
01:49:20,209 --> 01:49:17,159
very nice illustration which you then

2696
01:49:21,950 --> 01:49:20,219
see in video and that I think was

2697
01:49:24,770 --> 01:49:21,960
reasonably conclusive in demonstrating

2698
01:49:26,870 --> 01:49:24,780
that it's you know not a rotating light

2699
01:49:28,430 --> 01:49:26,880
it's a rotating glare

2700
01:49:30,350 --> 01:49:28,440
still lots of people don't believe it

2701
01:49:32,270 --> 01:49:30,360
even people who

2702
01:49:34,550 --> 01:49:32,280
present themselves as being like IR

2703
01:49:36,890 --> 01:49:34,560
experts that will say oh no it's not oh

2704
01:49:38,330 --> 01:49:36,900
but you know I think I've pretty much

2705
01:49:42,290 --> 01:49:38,340
got that one down

2706
01:49:44,930 --> 01:49:42,300
but then we come to like Gimbal and go

2707
01:49:46,370 --> 01:49:44,940
fast and when you add the wind in so

2708
01:49:48,530 --> 01:49:46,380
fast now it starts to look a little

2709
01:49:52,250 --> 01:49:48,540
squirrely we don't know exactly what the

2710
01:49:53,390 --> 01:49:52,260
situation is there like and so yeah I

2711
01:49:55,370 --> 01:49:53,400
still plan to come back to that even

2712
01:49:56,930 --> 01:49:55,380
though I think it was it was it was

2713
01:49:59,030 --> 01:49:56,940
about a year ago that I started this

2714
01:50:00,530 --> 01:49:59,040
this whole sit wreck thing and I've been

2715
01:50:01,729 --> 01:50:00,540
working on and off I've been doing it

2716
01:50:05,330 --> 01:50:01,739
for the last few months because I've

2717
01:50:07,070 --> 01:50:05,340
been working on the book but now I'm

2718
01:50:09,649 --> 01:50:07,080
planning to do a lot more work on this

2719
01:50:12,229 --> 01:50:09,659
so I'm still coming back to these

2720
01:50:14,330 --> 01:50:12,239
classic cases Gimbal and go Fest and

2721
01:50:15,770 --> 01:50:14,340
maybe even Nimitz I don't think I'll do

2722
01:50:18,770 --> 01:50:15,780
anything more with the green triangle

2723
01:50:20,450 --> 01:50:18,780
but I mean you never know but yeah those

2724
01:50:22,189 --> 01:50:20,460
are the cases that I keep coming back to

2725
01:50:25,010 --> 01:50:22,199
the walls were

2726
01:50:27,310 --> 01:50:25,020
people remain unconvinced when the uh

2727
01:50:30,129 --> 01:50:27,320
the client Navy case

2728
01:50:34,370 --> 01:50:30,139
you know that was like

2729
01:50:36,350 --> 01:50:34,380
2017 yeah I think it was 2017 that uh uh

2730
01:50:38,990 --> 01:50:36,360
came out like you know Leslie King did

2731
01:50:41,390 --> 01:50:39,000
this article and Huffington Post and

2732
01:50:43,490 --> 01:50:41,400
through it is later we did identify the

2733
01:50:44,689 --> 01:50:43,500
plane

2734
01:50:46,669 --> 01:50:44,699
um the flight and I don't know if the

2735
01:50:51,530 --> 01:50:46,679
recreation from the perspective the

2736
01:50:54,770 --> 01:50:53,570
and we proved like exactly what plane it

2737
01:51:01,970 --> 01:50:54,780
was

2738
01:51:04,189 --> 01:51:01,980
you know there's a couple of shows that

2739
01:51:06,290 --> 01:51:04,199
had that case on they're presenting it

2740
01:51:08,090 --> 01:51:06,300
as being unexplained there was one with

2741
01:51:09,470 --> 01:51:08,100
trap Taylor on yeah ancient aliens

2742
01:51:11,149 --> 01:51:09,480
covered it

2743
01:51:14,149 --> 01:51:11,159
they had this ridiculous thing where

2744
01:51:16,070 --> 01:51:14,159
they they showed like the the the two

2745
01:51:18,229 --> 01:51:16,080
balls that were behind it which are just

2746
01:51:20,570 --> 01:51:18,239
the glow the pairs of engines on his

2747
01:51:23,209 --> 01:51:20,580
wing and it was comparing to some kind

2748
01:51:25,010 --> 01:51:23,219
of uh Petroglyph some kind of rock

2749
01:51:27,229 --> 01:51:25,020
carving that was a thousand years old

2750
01:51:29,090 --> 01:51:27,239
like in a nearby Mountain saying there's

2751
01:51:30,470 --> 01:51:29,100
an obvious connect between these two

2752
01:51:32,689 --> 01:51:30,480
things and it proved that's the

2753
01:51:35,090 --> 01:51:32,699
astronaut hypothesis is correct it's

2754
01:51:37,070 --> 01:51:35,100
completely ridiculous but you know

2755
01:51:39,490 --> 01:51:37,080
because like not everyone knows that

2756
01:51:41,709 --> 01:51:39,500
that particular case has been debunked

2757
01:51:44,090 --> 01:51:41,719
apparently I didn't do a good enough job

2758
01:51:46,550 --> 01:51:44,100
perhaps I'll have to revisit that one as

2759
01:51:47,750 --> 01:51:46,560
well because you know it really gets me

2760
01:51:52,669 --> 01:51:47,760
that

2761
01:51:55,490 --> 01:51:52,679
is definitely solved and there's still a

2762
01:51:57,890 --> 01:51:55,500
bunch of people promoting it being a UFO

2763
01:51:59,930 --> 01:51:57,900
when it really is not

2764
01:52:02,209 --> 01:51:59,940
it doesn't help when the community looks

2765
01:52:04,609 --> 01:52:02,219
to entertainment as a as researcher

2766
01:52:06,709 --> 01:52:04,619
source for information but yeah I I

2767
01:52:09,410 --> 01:52:06,719
agree with you yeah well it gets

2768
01:52:11,390 --> 01:52:09,420
confusing when uh the author of one of

2769
01:52:13,729 --> 01:52:11,400
the official reports is appearing on

2770
01:52:15,890 --> 01:52:13,739
like Skinwalker Ranch and stuff like

2771
01:52:19,010 --> 01:52:15,900
what's going on it's like a crossover

2772
01:52:21,470 --> 01:52:19,020
reality like I don't know whatever yeah

2773
01:52:23,629 --> 01:52:21,480
I mean that that's so I mean and people

2774
01:52:26,709 --> 01:52:23,639
need to acknowledge the fact that that

2775
01:52:29,149 --> 01:52:26,719
is bizarre that you've got these people

2776
01:52:31,250 --> 01:52:29,159
uh uh bouncing around through these

2777
01:52:34,010 --> 01:52:31,260
different things yeah Travis Taylor is

2778
01:52:36,530 --> 01:52:34,020
like doing Your Redneck Rockets and then

2779
01:52:38,570 --> 01:52:36,540
he gets like you know he's he's painting

2780
01:52:41,030 --> 01:52:38,580
it the whole time secretly yeah it's

2781
01:52:42,530 --> 01:52:41,040
just secretly looking at the Pentagon uh

2782
01:52:45,050 --> 01:52:42,540
doing this thing and then he's doing

2783
01:52:47,030 --> 01:52:45,060
this you know the the task force UAP

2784
01:52:50,870 --> 01:52:47,040
task force and says he contributed to

2785
01:52:53,930 --> 01:52:50,880
the report and then he Stratton uh leave

2786
01:52:56,330 --> 01:52:53,940
the Pentagon and the go worker Radiance

2787
01:53:01,550 --> 01:52:56,340
uh Radiance technologist

2788
01:53:04,850 --> 01:53:01,560
being stuffed uh UAP research Arena

2789
01:53:06,470 --> 01:53:04,860
and and they're probably like doing

2790
01:53:09,050 --> 01:53:06,480
doing other things at the same time he's

2791
01:53:10,669 --> 01:53:09,060
doing a wrench and he's doing he's no

2792
01:53:13,570 --> 01:53:10,679
skin walker Ranch and he's doing Ancient

2793
01:53:16,129 --> 01:53:13,580
Aliens at the same time

2794
01:53:18,649 --> 01:53:16,139
it's a side hustle it's basically like

2795
01:53:21,950 --> 01:53:18,659
driving for Uber to make beer money yeah

2796
01:53:24,830 --> 01:53:21,960
but yeah the Pentagon yeah I'm sure

2797
01:53:26,629 --> 01:53:24,840
they're aware of it but it doesn't seem

2798
01:53:28,490 --> 01:53:26,639
like it's something that should be

2799
01:53:31,129 --> 01:53:28,500
happening you know we should have

2800
01:53:32,990 --> 01:53:31,139
serious scientists I agree on this and

2801
01:53:35,750 --> 01:53:33,000
you could argue that

2802
01:53:37,910 --> 01:53:35,760
you know it's entertainment but they are

2803
01:53:40,430 --> 01:53:37,920
claiming it is legitimate

2804
01:53:43,070 --> 01:53:40,440
right and we these are just all you know

2805
01:53:44,570 --> 01:53:43,080
we can say but we know skin walk around

2806
01:53:47,030 --> 01:53:44,580
she's all nonsense

2807
01:53:49,430 --> 01:53:47,040
uh even though everyone claims it but

2808
01:53:50,629 --> 01:53:49,440
you know do we actually take them at

2809
01:53:54,169 --> 01:53:50,639
their word

2810
01:53:56,270 --> 01:53:54,179
and you know I think yeah I think yeah I

2811
01:53:58,430 --> 01:53:56,280
said earlier I think the sad reality was

2812
01:54:01,070 --> 01:53:58,440
that the original UAP task force wasn't

2813
01:54:03,709 --> 01:54:01,080
very good the people who were working in

2814
01:54:05,050 --> 01:54:03,719
the original cases the original 144

2815
01:54:07,729 --> 01:54:05,060
cases

2816
01:54:09,830 --> 01:54:07,739
uh do not have a very good track record

2817
01:54:13,370 --> 01:54:09,840
they couldn't solve the green parent

2818
01:54:16,070 --> 01:54:13,380
right in case yeah they they to think

2819
01:54:17,450 --> 01:54:16,080
that it was an actual thing and it they

2820
01:54:19,729 --> 01:54:17,460
don't seem to have been able to have

2821
01:54:21,770 --> 01:54:19,739
solved this uh characterize this this

2822
01:54:24,890 --> 01:54:21,780
sphere you don't really know anything

2823
01:54:29,450 --> 01:54:24,900
about it but you know it's

2824
01:54:31,910 --> 01:54:29,460
it's not good yeah no

2825
01:54:34,729 --> 01:54:31,920
what's that so

2826
01:54:36,229 --> 01:54:34,739
on on that note we are approaching the

2827
01:54:38,689 --> 01:54:36,239
top of the hour

2828
01:54:40,430 --> 01:54:38,699
um Mick thank you so much for your

2829
01:54:41,629 --> 01:54:40,440
generosity this evening joining us yeah

2830
01:54:43,669 --> 01:54:41,639
you're very very welcome very

2831
01:54:44,990 --> 01:54:43,679
interesting and uh yeah I know I I

2832
01:54:47,750 --> 01:54:45,000
apologize if I got a little

2833
01:54:50,450 --> 01:54:47,760
confrontational with uh Campbell oh

2834
01:54:52,669 --> 01:54:50,460
we're grown-ups you're good yeah I'm

2835
01:54:54,950 --> 01:54:52,679
sorry I'm happy to talk about it more

2836
01:54:56,750 --> 01:54:54,960
more often uh because I think that whole

2837
01:54:58,189 --> 01:54:56,760
thing is very interesting I've always

2838
01:55:01,250 --> 01:54:58,199
been interested in the whole Foo Fighter

2839
01:55:03,709 --> 01:55:01,260
plasma aspect of it and you know maybe

2840
01:55:06,169 --> 01:55:03,719
we can look into why you're not being

2841
01:55:09,530 --> 01:55:06,179
more uh studied by scientific community

2842
01:55:13,729 --> 01:55:11,629
before I kick you off the Stream

2843
01:55:16,310 --> 01:55:13,739
where can we find you

2844
01:55:18,950 --> 01:55:16,320
you can find me at Mick West just um

2845
01:55:22,010 --> 01:55:18,960
Midwest everywhere like on the Twitter

2846
01:55:23,330 --> 01:55:22,020
and YouTube and Facebook and the

2847
01:55:25,550 --> 01:55:23,340
internet

2848
01:55:28,189 --> 01:55:25,560
wonderful and uh

2849
01:55:30,830 --> 01:55:28,199
so mostly mostly you'll find me on

2850
01:55:34,609 --> 01:55:30,840
Twitter twittering on Twitter uh but I I

2851
01:55:37,729 --> 01:55:34,619
post on metabunk and I occasionally uh

2852
01:55:39,890 --> 01:55:37,739
post uh interesting debunk videos on

2853
01:55:42,770 --> 01:55:39,900
YouTube

2854
01:55:45,370 --> 01:55:42,780
wonderful awesome thanks again Mick yeah

2855
01:55:47,330 --> 01:55:45,380
you do incredible work thank you so much

2856
01:55:48,649 --> 01:55:47,340
fantastic thank you very much I

2857
01:55:51,830 --> 01:55:48,659
appreciate that

2858
01:55:54,470 --> 01:55:51,840
um yeah I uh I appreciate the the chance

2859
01:55:56,330 --> 01:55:54,480
to get uh and get out and talk to people

2860
01:55:58,430 --> 01:55:56,340
and uh I'm always

2861
01:56:00,290 --> 01:55:58,440
open to talking to people people when my

2862
01:56:02,990 --> 01:56:00,300
DMs are open on Twitter so if you want

2863
01:56:05,689 --> 01:56:03,000
to chat about slide right in yeah just

2864
01:56:07,250 --> 01:56:05,699
just get in there and um I might even

2865
01:56:09,470 --> 01:56:07,260
hear

2866
01:56:14,570 --> 01:56:09,480
beautiful awesome thanks for coming

2867
01:56:20,629 --> 01:56:18,169
all right Mick westall that was fun that

2868
01:56:23,870 --> 01:56:20,639
was that was super fun really appreciate

2869
01:56:27,050 --> 01:56:23,880
sort of his approach

2870
01:56:28,669 --> 01:56:27,060
um this was I I think what I enjoyed so

2871
01:56:30,410 --> 01:56:28,679
much about this conversation I feel like

2872
01:56:32,090 --> 01:56:30,420
he got the chance to get into the Weeds

2873
01:56:34,189 --> 01:56:32,100
on a lot of stuff

2874
01:56:35,870 --> 01:56:34,199
um more so than other conversations I've

2875
01:56:37,790 --> 01:56:35,880
heard

2876
01:56:39,890 --> 01:56:37,800
right yeah I really enjoyed your

2877
01:56:41,330 --> 01:56:39,900
questions about uh psychedelics because

2878
01:56:43,790 --> 01:56:41,340
I don't know if I've ever heard Nick

2879
01:56:46,129 --> 01:56:43,800
comment on that and you know I think it

2880
01:56:47,930 --> 01:56:46,139
like humanizes him a bit like like he

2881
01:56:50,810 --> 01:56:47,940
mentioned that he has consumed cannabis

2882
01:56:53,390 --> 01:56:50,820
that's kind of interesting as a cannabis

2883
01:56:55,189 --> 01:56:53,400
grower I find that interesting yes I

2884
01:56:56,470 --> 01:56:55,199
feel like we could hang out

2885
01:56:58,910 --> 01:56:56,480
now

2886
01:57:01,310 --> 01:56:58,920
you guys aren't beefing

2887
01:57:03,169 --> 01:57:01,320
hey I'm not I wasn't beefing at all I

2888
01:57:05,330 --> 01:57:03,179
love it when people challenge me it's

2889
01:57:08,330 --> 01:57:05,340
that philosophy law school event that's

2890
01:57:13,010 --> 01:57:11,689
that was good and it's great nearly my

2891
01:57:16,070 --> 01:57:13,020
bedtime

2892
01:57:17,689 --> 01:57:16,080
um all right Nick what's going on bud

2893
01:57:18,770 --> 01:57:17,699
right now nothing I'm not working on

2894
01:57:22,790 --> 01:57:18,780
anything

2895
01:57:24,530 --> 01:57:22,800
just hanging out yeah Oregon Trail and

2896
01:57:27,589 --> 01:57:24,540
that awesome gaming rig right over your

2897
01:57:30,169 --> 01:57:27,599
shoulder oh man I wish yeah the dream

2898
01:57:33,410 --> 01:57:30,179
the dream him

2899
01:57:36,470 --> 01:57:33,420
Lewis what's going on man what about you

2900
01:57:40,010 --> 01:57:36,480
I recently interviewed our vicenter Juan

2901
01:57:42,770 --> 01:57:40,020
balusta Olmos I put up a um I'll put up

2902
01:57:46,010 --> 01:57:42,780
a link on uh Twitter it's on my website

2903
01:57:48,890 --> 01:57:46,020
ephology is corrupt.com

2904
01:57:50,629 --> 01:57:48,900
people want to check it out

2905
01:57:53,089 --> 01:57:50,639
can't believe doing anything

2906
01:57:55,790 --> 01:57:53,099
uh well I've got uh probably around a

2907
01:57:58,250 --> 01:57:55,800
foot of snow outside there we gotta get

2908
01:58:00,530 --> 01:57:58,260
on top of just like also agreed to

2909
01:58:03,229 --> 01:58:00,540
shovels a couple of neighbors driveways

2910
01:58:05,209 --> 01:58:03,239
too so I'll be on top of that otherwise

2911
01:58:08,410 --> 01:58:05,219
uh just be cleaning up my website a bit

2912
01:58:10,910 --> 01:58:08,420
I've been uh deleting stuff that um

2913
01:58:14,149 --> 01:58:10,920
Skeptics tell me kind of hits them the

2914
01:58:15,950 --> 01:58:14,159
wrong way and even if it's like even if

2915
01:58:17,750 --> 01:58:15,960
it's cited I I you know I'm trying to

2916
01:58:19,930 --> 01:58:17,760
streamline it so I deleted the entire

2917
01:58:23,149 --> 01:58:19,940
section about the

2918
01:58:25,370 --> 01:58:23,159
the evidence surrounding weaponization

2919
01:58:27,470 --> 01:58:25,380
in the government because people don't

2920
01:58:29,990 --> 01:58:27,480
like that even if I'm just saying these

2921
01:58:33,109 --> 01:58:30,000
are just documents like we sure it's uh

2922
01:58:34,970 --> 01:58:33,119
I'm saying it if I provide the documents

2923
01:58:36,169 --> 01:58:34,980
so you know it's not helpful so that's

2924
01:58:39,530 --> 01:58:36,179
what I've been working on

2925
01:58:42,589 --> 01:58:39,540
cool Leah I know you've been um

2926
01:58:46,550 --> 01:58:42,599
really working hard lately right

2927
01:58:48,770 --> 01:58:46,560
working well in so many dimensions dude

2928
01:58:50,149 --> 01:58:48,780
um so when I'm not firefighting Twitter

2929
01:58:52,850 --> 01:58:50,159
drama

2930
01:58:59,450 --> 01:58:55,370
Louis I'm beating you man

2931
01:59:01,790 --> 01:58:59,460
um I uh yeah I think it was him uh that

2932
01:59:04,189 --> 01:59:01,800
was leading to the echo yep um just

2933
01:59:06,709 --> 01:59:04,199
spending more time in deep Dives around

2934
01:59:08,570 --> 01:59:06,719
this Art Bell project I actually reached

2935
01:59:10,790 --> 01:59:08,580
out to a few of his higher profile

2936
01:59:13,490 --> 01:59:10,800
guests and have some interviews teed up

2937
01:59:15,589 --> 01:59:13,500
I'm super excited for some on and off

2938
01:59:17,689 --> 01:59:15,599
the record conversation

2939
01:59:20,270 --> 01:59:17,699
um yep so I have that going on

2940
01:59:21,890 --> 01:59:20,280
um I uh some of you are gonna hear an

2941
01:59:24,109 --> 01:59:21,900
official announcement soon but it sounds

2942
01:59:26,570 --> 01:59:24,119
like I'm gonna be jumping on as a formal

2943
01:59:27,589 --> 01:59:26,580
co-host and calling all beings

2944
01:59:29,750 --> 01:59:27,599
um

2945
01:59:31,550 --> 01:59:29,760
kind of an interesting opportunity to

2946
01:59:33,410 --> 01:59:31,560
spread my wings a little bit uh start

2947
01:59:36,830 --> 01:59:33,420
I've joined them for the last few weeks

2948
01:59:39,229 --> 01:59:36,840
to uh talk with Bigfoot Hunters and

2949
01:59:41,209 --> 01:59:39,239
other areas that I have a little bit

2950
01:59:43,490 --> 01:59:41,219
less familiarity with but super excited

2951
01:59:45,649 --> 01:59:43,500
for the opportunity to uh to talk and

2952
01:59:47,870 --> 01:59:45,659
work with that crowd

2953
01:59:49,189 --> 01:59:47,880
um not only do I think they're great but

2954
01:59:51,350 --> 01:59:49,199
I see it as a great opportunity

2955
01:59:52,669 --> 01:59:51,360
basically to Coalition build and

2956
01:59:54,709 --> 01:59:52,679
continue bringing good faith

2957
01:59:55,970 --> 01:59:54,719
conversation to these subjects let's

2958
01:59:58,189 --> 01:59:55,980
spread your wings but don't spread

2959
02:00:00,830 --> 01:59:58,199
yourself too thin I know you're doing a

2960
02:00:03,169 --> 02:00:00,840
show uh right after this aren't you I am

2961
02:00:05,330 --> 02:00:03,179
I'm so I'm jumping on mind escape from

2962
02:00:09,109 --> 02:00:05,340
uh like 11 15 to probably about 1am

2963
02:00:11,629 --> 02:00:09,119
Eastern we'll be doing the history of

2964
02:00:14,930 --> 02:00:11,639
psychedelics so medieval period through

2965
02:00:15,589 --> 02:00:14,940
modernity oh it's my time to shine

2966
02:00:18,050 --> 02:00:15,599
um

2967
02:00:19,550 --> 02:00:18,060
yeah so I'll be joining there uh if you

2968
02:00:20,450 --> 02:00:19,560
guys just check out mind escape on

2969
02:00:22,129 --> 02:00:20,460
YouTube

2970
02:00:24,050 --> 02:00:22,139
um I need to go make some tea and then

2971
02:00:26,450 --> 02:00:24,060
I'll be dialing in for uh more late

2972
02:00:29,270 --> 02:00:26,460
night conversation awesome

2973
02:00:32,750 --> 02:00:29,280
yes all right well gentlemen I will let

2974
02:00:34,850 --> 02:00:32,760
you go wait what's what's next week oh

2975
02:00:35,750 --> 02:00:34,860
really good boy oh my gosh what a good

2976
02:00:41,089 --> 02:00:35,760
one

2977
02:00:46,189 --> 02:00:43,970
um it's Sarah schools next week and the

2978
02:00:48,050 --> 02:00:46,199
week after we have Tom from estimate of

2979
02:00:49,669 --> 02:00:48,060
the situation

2980
02:00:52,010 --> 02:00:49,679
um he sent over his comic I'm super

2981
02:00:54,649 --> 02:00:52,020
excited with the special that's the the

2982
02:00:56,570 --> 02:00:54,659
far how do you say it fergina alien from

2983
02:00:58,129 --> 02:00:56,580
Brazil I don't want to try to pronounce

2984
02:01:00,350 --> 02:00:58,139
it but yeah I'm familiar I don't either

2985
02:01:04,189 --> 02:01:00,360
YouTube people put me on a list

2986
02:01:06,470 --> 02:01:04,199
um I need free comics but um well who

2987
02:01:07,729 --> 02:01:06,480
said it was free dude I paid earth oh

2988
02:01:10,010 --> 02:01:07,739
did you okay

2989
02:01:13,430 --> 02:01:10,020
oh yeah dude I'm

2990
02:01:15,109 --> 02:01:13,440
like if I if I if I work with uh an

2991
02:01:17,149 --> 02:01:15,119
artist or buy something I never

2992
02:01:18,770 --> 02:01:17,159
negotiate right I'm a big believer in

2993
02:01:21,109 --> 02:01:18,780
supporting people's independent creative

2994
02:01:22,370 --> 02:01:21,119
works right is this not believing

2995
02:01:25,070 --> 02:01:22,380
nothing and now I don't feel jealous

2996
02:01:28,550 --> 02:01:26,570
um I haven't read it yet but I have

2997
02:01:30,589 --> 02:01:28,560
admired the artwork it's also super cool

2998
02:01:33,109 --> 02:01:30,599
because it came in a top secret brown

2999
02:01:35,689 --> 02:01:33,119
envelope which nice as a marketer I

3000
02:01:36,589 --> 02:01:35,699
appreciated that very cool so yeah so we

3001
02:01:38,209 --> 02:01:36,599
have him

3002
02:01:40,669 --> 02:01:38,219
um and then yeah we have Sarah schools

3003
02:01:42,410 --> 02:01:40,679
next week author of uh they are already

3004
02:01:45,050 --> 02:01:42,420
here which was actually excited by

3005
02:01:47,689 --> 02:01:45,060
Midwest today yeah yeah

3006
02:01:49,310 --> 02:01:47,699
it's awesome super super excited

3007
02:01:52,490 --> 02:01:49,320
um hope to see everyone here next

3008
02:01:54,770 --> 02:01:52,500
Wednesday 9pm Eastern and you all have

3009
02:01:58,430 --> 02:01:54,780
better have read that book by now yes

3010
02:02:00,709 --> 02:01:58,440
everyone in the chat yes homework think

3011
02:02:02,390 --> 02:02:00,719
of it as a book club wonderful all right

3012
02:02:04,070 --> 02:02:02,400
well gentlemen again thank you so much

3013
02:02:10,770 --> 02:02:04,080
for joining this evening

3014
02:02:10,780 --> 02:02:21,709
[Music]

3015
02:02:21,719 --> 02:02:35,080
foreign

3016
02:03:05,870 --> 02:02:41,310
[Music]

3017
02:03:14,960 --> 02:03:07,290
[Applause]

3018
02:03:49,080 --> 02:03:47,089
[Music]